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essex flange fitting


 
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hawkinsj

from United Kingdom

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Southampton,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:54 pm Reply with quote

Hmm, just how hard is it to install an essex flange? Most people seem to avoid it and go for, what appears to be, the worse option of a surrey flange.

And, do they come with the nice curved pipe - or do I have to make it - I don't have a pipe bender ! Hmm, I guess I'll need one for the anti-gravity bend too ?

Is there any weakening risk in drilling a hole in my tank?


many thanks !
John.
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gasmick2

from United Kingdom

Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 332
Location: Leicestershire,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1 time

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:30 pm Reply with quote

Hi i would have thought it was the other way round as with a surrey flange at least you only have to turn off the tank supply and open the taps to a level and of course if you are using it for a hot feed to a power shower its the best option as it has the dip pipe so no air can be pulled in via the expansion pipe
so its well worth the extra work in altering the hot water draw off,
the essex flange will only give you a bsp thread to draw off from and they do not come with a dip pipe they are a bit tricky to fit with the wire contraption they supply i used to use a piece of iron threaded pipe in whichever size i was fitting and at least i never dropped any part of it into the cyld also it will not make the cyld any weaker after fitting

mick
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GJS

from United Kingdom

Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Kent,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:37 am Reply with quote

I've done three essex flanges (should have been two but I put my first on the wrong side of the tank - doh!) and they are quite easy if you follow the instructions. The worst thing that can happen is dropping it inside the tank so do it when the shops are open so you can get another one.

You don't have to use a bent pipe and, in fact, I've not found a way to get it into the brass body of the flange except on a tank with the immersion heater hole open. You can use a straight pipe and cut a sharp angle on the end. Then ensure that the opening is pointing upwards. I did this and connected it to a shower pump. I can hear a very small amount of air in the pump which will probably shorten its life, but I think not significantly.

The surrey flange will give you a lower flow rate and, I think, could be harder to fit if the existing flange is a b**stard to get off. Draining the tank sufficiently to fit the essex flange is likely to be the biggest problem as those little drain cocks rarely seem to work as advertised. If you get it drained OK your laughing. You should check, but I don't think you always need an anti-gravity bend. It depends on the layout. Anyway, pipe benders are quite cheap from B&Q and easy to use.

'Hope that helps.
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hawkinsj

from United Kingdom

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Southampton,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:54 pm Reply with quote

Thankyou !

Essex flange it is then. I've got a mates pipe benders. Now I just have to work out what pump to get.

Is there any algorithm I can use to work this out?
I've got a 8" Apron shower head and a thermostatic valve. Is 2 bar way too much? I figured I'd get a 2 bar variable pump and tune it down until a compromise was made.

Any thoughts anyone?

many thanks !
John.
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GJS

from United Kingdom

Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Kent,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:30 am Reply with quote

Wow, that's a shower head and a half! I don't know of any formula for deciding on pump pressure/flow rate, but for that head I would go large!

I've installed two Salamander RSP 75s 2.25 bar (at my old house and new house) both with Mira Gem 88 valves. I used the standard Mira head on the first one and the shower was excellent but I was worried about it emptying the cold tank so I put the supplied flow restrictor in the valve which still gave a good shower but I'd probably wasted money on that size of pump.

With the second one, I had a bigger CW tank so I used the same pump and a high flow head. This gives a good shower with loads of flow but the pressure is OK but not startling.

For your head I would go for a minimum of 2 bar, possibly 3 bar.

You don't need a thermostatic valve if you have dedicated feeds from your essex flange and the cold tank but if you've already got it, it won't do any harm.

Now that you've got pipe benders put in as many bends as possible instead of elbows, this keeps flow up and noise down.

Also, make sure you use a high flow waste in your shower tray to make sure it can keep up and not overflow the tray.

Having recently done the two "decent" showers I've learnt a lot about them so ask away if you've any other queries. There's loads of info in these pump instation instructions that I used:

http://www.salamanderpumps.co.uk/Download/instructions.pdf

By the way, I'm not aware of any "good" pumps that are variable so I would approach these with a bit of caution. Stuart Turner seem to be commonly recomended.

Hope that helps.
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hawkinsj

from United Kingdom

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Southampton,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:12 am Reply with quote

When I put the 8" head on the wall it was waaaayyy to big icon_smile.gif I downgraded to a 5" head - which will still need some ummph !

I've seen a salamander variable Pump so that'll be the man for me I think.

Any thoughts on plastic piping versus copper?

My pipe-bender mate ( a serious DIYer) put in plastic all the way for the cold but didn't trust it for the hot. I was thinking of going half and half.

Copper at both ends then plastic in the middle. But then I got the valve and I started thinking that in reality PTFe tape is just plastic anyhow so why not go plastic at the thermostat end too?

He did say that there are two types of plastic connector push fit and "push and click" (don't know official name) and he said don't go for just the push - he had a plumber friend who was always getting called back to fix them.
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GJS

from United Kingdom

Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Kent,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:47 am Reply with quote

I go for all copper myself. Plastic is definately easier to fit mainly because it can easily go round gentle bends. Personally, its the O rings that are used in all the fittings that I don't fully trust. They have a finite life before they perish. OK, this might be donkeys years, and I'm probably just being paranoid.

I think the two main types of fitting for plastic are push fit and compression. I'm not sure what the push and click is. Compression is bulkier, so won't fit in confined spaces but is generally more secure. With copper you have the choice of solder, compression and push fit.

I can't really make a recomendation one way or the other.
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hawkinsj

from United Kingdom

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 35
Location: Southampton,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:33 pm Reply with quote

Half way through (been a busy weekend !) and I'll have to go plastic from the valve to the pump - the pipes come up in a horrible place in the loft so the nice bendy plastic is the only way I can think of doing it.

I've just been looking at techflanges and it seems to be 22mm - which bemuses me because the pump I just bought only has 15" inlets (and outlets so I'm going to have to reduce it. Is there such a thing as a 15mm techflange/essex flange.

Am I missing something?

Many thanks for all your help so far !!
John.
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GJS

from United Kingdom

Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Kent,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:48 am Reply with quote

I don't think you're missing anything. Just reduce to 15 before you go into the pump.
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hawkinsj (8 Aug 2011)
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lucaska

from United Kingdom

Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 1
Location: Lincolnshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:13 am Reply with quote

I'm new to the forum but i wondered if any one has used an essex flange to fit a destratification pump
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