DIYnot
Local | Network
   DIYnot > Forums
Local | Network
DIYnot Network Local DIYnot Network Local  
  Forum IndexForum Index     RulesRules    HelpHelp     Join FREERegister Free     About CookiesCookies     SearchSearch     LoginLogin 

how do i stop water coming in my property????

Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    DIYnot.com Forum Index > Building
Search this topic :: View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
claire1316

from United Kingdom

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Surrey,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:21 pm Reply with quote

the bungalow was built in 1960,s. i moved there 5 years ago. my floor boards collasped in my front bedroom. we removed the whole bedroom floor to find lots of water. i am under a insurance claim at the moment but their not interested in finding out how the water is getting in. it only does it when it rains or if we put the hose on to test it. ins. co. have tanked half of the bedroom but this has only pushed the water in a different direction. we have block paving at the front of the property, and the driveway does slope towards the bungalow.

can you tank the whole property without being liable for neighbours (if the water then channels left or right)

we think the problem has been going on for years cos the joists had dry rot, but we only had a homebuyers survey done at the time of moving in

any advice welcome
Back to top
 Alert Moderators

If you do not want to see this advert, click here to login or if you are new click here to join free.
PrenticeBoyofDerry

from United Kingdom

Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 17439
Location: Londonderry,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1735 times

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:29 pm Reply with quote

It sound very much like the driveway is draining towards your property and this is the cause of the problem.
You can dig out and tank it up, I don't believe your neighbours have a say on it or you are liable to any effect it has on their property (harsh I know but been in a simular position)
Back to top
The following user says thank you to PrenticeBoyofDerry for this useful post:
claire1316 (15 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
Chukka63

from United Kingdom

Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 903
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 81 times

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:26 pm Reply with quote

if it is the drive,put a channel drain the length of the drive/property to get the water away.
Back to top
The following user says thank you to Chukka63 for this useful post:
claire1316 (15 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
alittlerespect

from United Kingdom

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 402
Location: Surrey,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 47 times

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:48 pm Reply with quote

Hi

The most likely culprit is the block paving - couple of questions:- 1. Is the finished level of the block paving above the dpc level? and/or 2. is the block paving above the level of the oversite concrete - Both will give rise to the problems that you are encountering with ground water penetration.

A further but unlikely culprit could be ground water pressure, with the brick paviours sealing the ground and causing the water table to rise.

As a note there will be no dpm (and there never will have been - as with the design of the structure there was no need - it is only because someone at some point in time has changed the ground conditions which are allowing this problem is occur!

The reason that the problem has moved is because water will look for the path of least resistance, having sealed half the floor the water will saturate the immediate area and transverse to the next nearest area.

As a note: Dry Rot generally occurs where there is a lack of ventilation and warm humid stagnant air becomes trapped in the floor void which encourages fungal spores to germinate. Problem is dry rot travels inside and along the grain of the timber eating up the cellulose fibre that gives timber its strength - hence the reason your floor gave way!

One further question - has someone blocked up the air bricks around the perimeter of the property - highly likely as this is a major factor in the occurence of dry rot!
Either the block paving has blocked the air bricks or someone has gone around blocking up the air bricks because of the draughts they created.

So! You most likely have two problem areas - 1. the block paving being higher than the oversite concrete/dpc and definitely a lack of ventilation to the floor void.

Solutions: Easiest first - if possible unblock the air bricks - if none exist you will need to introduce some - as a general rule 1 air brick every 3 metres sited under dpc. More difficult - if the block paving joins/touches the building line you will need to introduce a 'french drain' - do a www search on french drains and you should find some useful information, in basic you need to separate the block paving from the building line, which will mean digging a small trench say 1 spade width wide by a depth that finishes at least 150mm below the top of the oversite concrete then insert perforated 100mm dia soil pipe, then back fill with coarse agregate and finish with pea beach/shingle (which will allow rainwater to freely drain away before it causes a nuisance. Not quite that simple but it will get your imagination working!

Also you will need to consider insulating between the floor joists to counter the effects/draughts encountered by introducing the air bricks!!
This would also give you an opportunity to check on the condition of the new joists and floor boards, as dry rot is an absolute nightmare to get rid off, and if the problems have not been resolved recently then you could easily find a re-occurence of dry rot!

Regards
Back to top
The following user says thank you to alittlerespect for this useful post:
claire1316 (15 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
jeds

from United Kingdom

Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 3166
Location: United Kingdom
Thanked: 404 times

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:38 pm Reply with quote

There are ways to deal with excessive dampness and free-water beneath floors but it is very difficult to advise without knowing the exact situation and surrounding ground conditions etc.

One thing you should definitely do though is make sure the floor void is well ventilated. As mentioned above this will not be helping the situation and is the most likely cause of dry rot.

For the dampness a drain is the most obvious solution, which might have to be sump pumped if gravity isn't an option.
Back to top
The following user says thank you to jeds for this useful post:
claire1316 (15 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
alittlerespect

from United Kingdom

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 402
Location: Surrey,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 47 times

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:00 pm Reply with quote

Hi

If you would like a more robust assessment it would assist if you could add some photo's showing each elevation of your building along the ground line and particularly where the block paving meets the building?

Regards
Back to top
The following user says thank you to alittlerespect for this useful post:
claire1316 (15 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
Blagard

from United Kingdom

Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 1306
Location: Leicestershire,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 232 times

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:23 pm Reply with quote

claire1316 wrote:
the bungalow was built in 1960,s.


Hi,

Lots of valid points made in the above posts. This forum is not really the place to sort out your problem. You would be best advised to have a chartered building surveyor inspect, report and specify a solution.

Like many here I would think drainage is very likely a major part of the problem, but since the property has been around for some time and you don't really know what has been done on it. There are other issues that could be found.

Work elsewhere can cause ventilation problems, such as an adjacent floor being made solid. - No number of Vents will help if the air cannot move through the void.

As stated Dry Rot tends to start in poorly ventilated spaces with high humidity levels. What has not been said is that once established, Dry Rot will survive in much less severe conditions and can be the devil to eradicate. It will travel over and through almost any form construction feeding on timber it finds. Is Dry Rot what you have been told? It is frequently confused with Wet Rot and visa versa!

Tanking (at this stage) is simply hiding the symptoms of a problem and in my opinion, a waste of money unless you know that is the correct solution. Be extremely wary of any reports from timber rot and Dampness companies. There are good ones out there, but far too many cowboys around. You need to know the good from the bad.
Back to top
The following user says thank you to Blagard for this useful post:
claire1316 (15 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
claire1316

from United Kingdom

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Surrey,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:30 pm Reply with quote

many thanks for all your replies.

message for "alittlerespect"

NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY LEVEL OF OVERSITE CONCRETE.

NO, THE BLOCK PAVING IS NOT ABOVE DPC LEVEL.

THERE IS AIR BRICKS ALL AROND THE PROPERTY AND THEY HAVE BEEN CLEANED.


DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW LONG DRY ROT TAKES TO FORM???

WE HAVE CONSIDERED PUTTING IN A FRENCH DRAIN.

WE ARE PLANNING ON MOVING THE GULLEY FURTHER UP THE DRIVE AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY AND ALSO PUTTING IN TWO FLOWER BEDS TO HELP SOAK UP THE WATER. WHETHER THIS WILL WORK THATS ANOTHER QUESTION.

ALSO, WE WERE ADVISED TO DIG DOWN TO THE FOOTING AND SCREED AND SEAL THE FRONT, ANOTHER SUGGESTION BUT DONT KNOW IF IT WILL WORK

ITS SUCH A HEADACHE

BEEN IN RENTED ACCOMODATION FOR 15 MONTHS NOW.

THANKS AGAIN, MUCH APPRECIATED
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
PrenticeBoyofDerry

from United Kingdom

Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 17439
Location: Londonderry,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1735 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:26 pm Reply with quote

Dry Rot! Tough question;
The spores produced by dry rot can take about 1 week to ten days to start to germinate, they can spread/grow, an area of over 4 metres in a year. They can also lay dormant for three years, you can buy dry rot detectors.
Back to top
The following user says thank you to PrenticeBoyofDerry for this useful post:
claire1316 (16 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
Blagard

from United Kingdom

Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 1306
Location: Leicestershire,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 232 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:28 pm Reply with quote

PrenticeBoyofDerry wrote:
They can also lay dormant for three years

I reckon the courts still out on that one and would always think longer.

PrenticeBoyofDerry wrote:
you can buy dry rot detectors.

Now that is a new one on me ! (Expecting a someone walking around with an eletronic device) - Planting sensors to give an indication I have heard of but no idea where you get them.

For what it is worth regards attached properties I did an inspection of one that had been treated (properly so far as I was aware), but the dry rot had returned with a vengance (in the cellar again). As the property was in a terrace with one ajoining cellar I popped around next door and asked if I could have a look - The cellar was immaculate white painted walls, all spick and span. I asked the lady owner if she ever had to clean white filaments off the walls. Yes she said! Aha! finally I found the source lurking behind the board for the Electric meter - A mature fruiting body no less.

The lesson is to check the neighbours sub-floors as well if at all possible!

claire1316 wrote:
Not sure what youmean by level of oversite concrete

That is the concrete at the bottom of your floor space. In your instance it would be logical for it to lower than the paving/ground level outside.
Back to top
The following user says thank you to Blagard for this useful post:
claire1316 (16 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
alittlerespect

from United Kingdom

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 402
Location: Surrey,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 47 times

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:58 pm Reply with quote

Hi

My earlier offer is still open if you would like to take the trouble to download some photographs.

I say trouble, as downloading photographs is not quite the simple process you may be expecting. First you need to create a library of your photo's in 'images', once this is done you can then download or to be more precise in this instance 'upload pictures' to the discussion thread.

Given the nature of your problems, you possibly have more than one root cause - ground water alone will not cause dry rot and you must have certain conditions which is causing stagnant air to develop in the floor void (No ifs or buts, if you had plenty of ventilation you possibly would not have the dry rot problem, I'm saying possibly as at certain times of the year conditions may become ideal especially as you have so much ground water present - all you need is the right temperature and humidity and you have yourself a problem.

First double check your air bricks - they may be clean but has someone blocked up the ventilation holes? Get a stiff piece of wire (metal coathanger comes to mind) and check out the ventilation holes to make sure they have not become obstructed (cavity wall insulation comes to mind, the stuff does a wonderful job but can create more problems than it solves!) Just check out a sample number of holes there's no need to do every hole! If the vents are clear you should feel some draughts somewhere in the ground floor of the building, if not then you have a problem with air circulation.

? Is the surface of the block paving at least 150mm below the dpc level? Should have asked this last time round!

Dry rot is not about how long it takes to form, the problem is getting rid of it once you've got it! If its caught in the early stages then not too much of a problem to treat - in your case its a bit worse and you would hopefully have got a professional company in to carry out the necessary treatment - it does get a lot worse, so no need to overly worry.

There's not much point in moving the gulley, however, what you could do is check over the gulley to make sure the 'trap' is not blocked - get hold of some rubber gloves with long arms and stick your hand down as far as it will go and if the gulley is clear your arm should go down to about your elbow (or thereabouts) if it goes any less then you possibly have a blocked gulley, you should also check out the soil pipe which runs from the gulley, however, first things first, if you have had to clear the gulley throw a bucket of water down the gulley and if it drains away rapidly you dont have a blocked pipe and there is no need to take any further action. If you aren't familiar with a back inlet gulley go to a local DIY or Builders Merchant and ask to see one and get the person to explain how it works, it is pretty common for gulleys to block up from time to time and they should be cleaned out once every couple of years!

I would forget all about your other proposals as there is not going to be any real benefit. The only thing left of any real effect will be a french drain - this is topped of with pea beach/shingle which allows rainwater to drain away easily - if you wish to dress it up add some rocks and alpine plants, or plants that don't rely on a lot of water. I will put together a little specification for you - on a later thread - its taken a bit of a while to write this one and I am hoping that I haven't timed out!

Regards
Back to top
The following user says thank you to alittlerespect for this useful post:
claire1316 (16 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
Blagard

from United Kingdom

Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 1306
Location: Leicestershire,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 232 times

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:53 am Reply with quote

Just one other thing to consider.

If the source of the water remains unresolved you should consider if there has been a change to the local water table. This type of change would very likely affect other houses in your neighbourhood in a similar way. I have never come across the problem myself, I'm just aware it can happen.
Back to top
The following user says thank you to Blagard for this useful post:
claire1316 (16 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
PrenticeBoyofDerry

from United Kingdom

Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 17439
Location: Londonderry,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1735 times

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:25 am Reply with quote

Back to top
The following user says thank you to PrenticeBoyofDerry for this useful post:
claire1316 (16 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
alittlerespect

from United Kingdom

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 402
Location: Surrey,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 47 times

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:07 am Reply with quote

Hi

You mention in your opening thread that you use a hose to test the water tightness of the building and 'in it comes' - my comment would be that ground water should not penetrate into the building so readily.

One question - is the line of water penetration along the length of wall that the block paving abuts? If so then you have a likely culprit!

One further consideration is a broken mains water pipe, but if this was the case the problem would be there all the time - thinking along the lines that a broken mains water pipe would eventually saturate the ground and any adjacent building line below the level of the dpc (damp proof course) - and as the oversite concrete will not have a dpm (damp proof membrane) this could be a source of the problem?

I mentioned cavity wall insulation in the earlier thread as it may be that cavity wall insulation has been installed and the insulation material may well have blocked up the air bricks, which would explain the stagnant air.

Regretfully, there are no easy answers in situations like yours and it becomes a process of elimination, and you would start by investigating the more likely causes and then work your way back, ticking off the boxes as you go! As the most likely cause of the water penetration is the block paving you should remove a section of block paving along the width of the building line and clear a trench that goes down to the level of the foundations or below the bottom of the oversite concrete which ever is the minimum depth (assume that the oversite concrete is 150mm thick). Then see if the water dry's out! If all goes well - you will then have dug the trench ready to receive the french drain, so all the effort would not have been a waste of time.

Next thing are the air bricks - You have to have stagnant air to encourage dry rot - make sure that the cavity between the inner and outer air bricks are not blocked with cavity insulation - you may need to break out the face of an air brick to check, and ensure that the cavity insulation does not block the ventilation path between the inner and outer air bricks, insert a section of rectangular plastic ducting (around the same size as the air brick (readily available from a DIY store) to bridge the cavity (which will be below dpc level and won't cause any problems) this will ensure that the cavity insulation does not block up the ventilation path in the future.
Then rather than going to the trouble of replacing the damaged air bricks buy some plastic covers from you local DIY store and stick onto the face of the damaged air brick/s with silicone mastic.
One further point that has crossed my mind is the fact that there may not be any internal air bricks or matching hole, which is an absolute no-no. If you do not have an opening on the internal face of the wall opposite the air bricks then the best bet would be to drill some holes to create an air path - use an sds drill as it will treat the wall as if it were butter - you will need a long drill bit, use an 18mm diameter drill bit and drill around six holes try to keep the holes within the area of an air brick as you will still need to use a section of ducting to bridge the cavity!

Once you reach this point - take a 'rest bite' for a couple of weeks to see if conditions improve - hopefully they will! Then you can give some thought to the 'french drain' by which time I will hopefully have provided you with a spec for!

Regards
Back to top
The following user says thank you to alittlerespect for this useful post:
claire1316 (16 Feb 2010)
 Alert Moderators
claire1316

from United Kingdom

Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Surrey,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:28 am Reply with quote

thanks to everyone again.

i think i should mention that we had a leak in a pipe under the bathroom floor, the bathroom is next to the problem bedroom.

understanding the replies im now thinking the dry rot has been caused by this leak and not by the driveway.

im still not sure how the water is getting in.

thanks again
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
Search this topic :: View previous topic :: View next topic  
Post new topic   Reply to topic    DIYnot.com Forum Index > Building All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Similar Topics   Replies   Views   Posted 
concrete mixture to stop water draining into foundations? 10 520 Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:39 am
Stop draft from roof entering ground floor ceiling void 3 200 Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:52 am
Seal for concrete floor to stop dusting? 5 80 Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:50 pm
building a soundproof partition to stop flanking sound 4 140 Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:41 pm
How to stop Efflorescence 15 6320 Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:31 pm


 
DIYnot
Find an Expert | Find a Supplier | Search DIYnot.com
Network | Advertising | Newsletter
DIY | DIY How To | @home | DIY Wiki | DIY Forum
By using this site you agree to our Terms of Service / Disclaimer.
Please read our Privacy Policy. Copyright © 2000-2014 DIYnot Limited.