No Hot Water, overflowing overflow!!!

charlies99 · 2 Jan 2006

Hi all you experts

I have had a few problems lately with leaking Rads, I turned them off and have today replaced two of them (one more to go). all the rads went in the space of about seven months (the whole system is about six years old).

The Rads are all cold at the bottom so I suspect sludge is in the system. Just as it started happening the hot water also stopped working (which was never great anyway as it could only heat up if the taps were half turned on, ie SLOW flow rate).

Also, the overflow pipe to outside is constantly leaking.

For information if it helps:-

Boiler is a SIME Comby
It is a sealed system.
Water presure shows about two and is steady.
Boiler is placed in cellar but pumps great to all radiators in house.
Boiler remains lit all time and very rarely goes out.
The downstairs rads went first followed by an upstairs Rad that has no Thermo valve(Plumber said it was wise to have one rad \\\"on all the time\\\").
I dont think it ever had any inhibitors put in which could explain sludge.
Loop fill is still attached to boiler but has a screw to stop supply and also a switch/tap thing.

Can anyone suggest what is wrong, especially the no hot water and the overflowing pipe. I REALLY want a bath instead of a shower!!!

Many thanks to anyone who can help.

charlies99 · 2 Jan 2006

Just an update.

Noticed new radiator downstairs is cold at bottom, but rads upstairs are getting a bit warmer towards the centre bottom than before. New rad upstairs is hot everywhere.

Could this mean the sludge is moving freely and collecting at lowest rads? If so, do I keep emptying these to free the system of crap?

Doesn't help with my hot water though!!!! It warms up but then goes cold straight away, I didn't mention it in previous post but boiler fires up when hot taps are on but it never seems to warm water (except for a few seconds).

bab · 2 Jan 2006

The sludge in your system is a problem that will hav to be adressedsoon. You only get a short burst of hot water cos the heating been on. Not got any advice on ya boiler but there must be a build up of scale or sludge in there reducing the heat transfer. You need,a manual flush,Then a power flush then the boiler checking & then an in line filter fitting.(maybe even a new HE combi ) & treat the system.

charlies99 · 2 Jan 2006

Thanks!!!!!

The hot water does not work even if heating is off but boiler still fires.

I think you are right that it needs flushing and treating, just wish plumber had done it when installed. I have had to replace three Rads that cost me £175. (Mind you a plumber quoted me £600 to do it!!!!, and he couldn't do it for two months. Same story with all local plumbers, god it must be a good trade to be in). This site was great for advice on how to replace rads, believe me an amatuer does not want to tackle this crap, but the constant advice on here is invaluable. Keep it up guys.

Any views on the overflow?

Slugbabydotcom · 2 Jan 2006

Imagine a game of cluedo where there are several suspects yet there may be 2 or more killers.
Here's my suspect list

pressure vessel
Pressure relief valve
Someone left the filling loop connected and turned on

Sludge
Faulty sticking or blocked Diverter valve and worn diaphragm
Pump
Temp sensor

I'm usually the last man standing when it comes to keeping a boiler going rather than replace it but this time a new one could be on the cards

charlies99 · 2 Jan 2006

Any chance you gave in too early? Heating is great now, water warms up for a few seconds before cooling. Pipe still overflowing.

If Only I did not have a one month wait before a plumber can even look at it!!! Never mind fix it!

charlies99 · 3 Jan 2006

BUMP....

Overlfow still going like a tap turned on!!!!! No leaks as far as I can see, and certainly not at the rate the water is coming out of overflow.

Could it be loop infill? If I turn the tap on the infill the pipe "stiffens" as though it now has water in, I also turn a screw to stop supply to boiler when I turn it off after filling system.

Is 2bar too high for pressure? if I bleed rads they wont fill unless I let water into system using loop fill and pressure is about 2bar at the point they start filling, system then maintains this pressure constantly but still leaks from overflow.

Heating is working great.

Any help from u peeps?

Also, as a side note I would be interested in training as a plumber aas a career change. I'am 35, is this too old to get into the game?

bab · 3 Jan 2006

The problem of havin the boiler in the cellar is thats where the pressure gauge & relief valve is . (30 ft) 10m is 1 bar pressure so if ur rads r 33 feet above ur boiler then ur gonna need more than abar to get it up there.

charlies99 · 3 Jan 2006

Cool reply...so i take it that the pressure is ok, especially as it performs well on all boilers..

Any advice on the overflow prob?

bab · 3 Jan 2006

Its not ideal havin ur boiler under more pressure than it has to but unless u lift it up a floor not a lot u can do easily. If ya boiler pressure relief (o/f) as u call it is running on 2 bar then either the gauge is faulty cos it shouldnt disharge until 3 bar (Does gauge go to zero if drained) BUT more common is a faulty /worn presure relief valve on the boiler. Hav u tried turning the PRV head until it jumps a few times to see if it stops. r u sure the filling loops not passin.

charlies99 · 3 Jan 2006

I am gong to try taking fill pipe off and see if tht helps, but it seems to stifeen when turned on, so I think this is ok. (ie turned off and slack until i open tap)

having said that, i cannot see why it can be overflowing, pressure is only at 2bar, so should not be pouring out? It is as fast as tap!!!!!

bab · 3 Jan 2006

If ur stil there .before u tamper turn off the main stop tap in ya house to see what happens.If its pouring out like a tap & pressure aint dropping then some where its pouring in like a tap. If it isnt the combi loop its some how where the dhw is heated. DONT know ur boiler, Not popular round here. (thankgoodness) unfortunatly suprimas r.

meldrew's_mate · 3 Jan 2006

charlies99 said:
Overlfow still going like a tap turned on!!!!! No leaks as far as I can see, and certainly not at the rate the water is coming out of overflow.

Could it be loop infill? If I turn the tap on the infill the pipe "stiffens" as though it now has water in, I also turn a screw to stop supply to boiler when I turn it off after filling system.

Also, as a side note I would be interested in training as a plumber aas a career change. I'am 35, is this too old to get into the game?

Try taking the "infill" pipe (the filling loop) off, then you'll see how much water is p*****g in.

The relief valve is passing at the same rate. This is how the oxygen is being introduced that has so quickly rusted away your rads. Take bab's advice, but also check that the pressure gauge shows zero when the system is empty.

As for being a plumber, how are your knees

You'll also need some aptitude and a basic understanding of physics. What we're doing here is NOT plumbing, it's heat transfer via hot water, and for this you need a good analytical aptitute plus the ability to fault find logically. So you can train to be a plumber and lots do, just don't do it for the money, you'll be sadly disappointed

From what I have seen in his postings it is clear that bab has the rare ability to home in on the underlying fault(s) and I suspect he is in great demand at work sorting out the "problem" systems others cannot fathom.

If only he was a girl with big mams.........

meldrew's_mate · 3 Jan 2006

bab said:
Not popular round here. (thankgoodness) unfortunatly suprimas r.

Plenty of work there to make up for the DHW cylinders that last 30 years

bab · 3 Jan 2006

thanks 4 the kind words mate. At work i'm the boss so i gota sort out all the tish. Also gota expect the unexpected to try to save me money. As 4 the paps .only pecks. bac to the problem. hes unsure about undoing the filling loop.

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No Hot Water, overflowing overflow!!!

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