Help/advice needed - noisy mains even with all taps turned off.

[Mottie]

I’ve moved this from general chat as it’s gone past that point now. Looking for some advice. Open up the quoted posts to see videos. They may only be up for a few days as they are from a free site.

Troubleshooting - and it’s not even 7.00am!
For the last couple of mornings, when I’ve given the toilet its first flush of the day, I’ve heard a vibrating noise going through the house for a minute or two. I put it down to a dodgy fill valve making a noise just as the cistern is coming to full. This morning it just kept going and going, really loud. Even turning other taps on and flushing the toilet made no difference. I went into the street to turn it off at the meter and the cause of the noise was immediately obvious - the noise was coming from the water meter. I turned it off, then back on, noise gone. I then made a cuppa and as I turned the tap off, I could hear a slight buzzing that wasn’t going away. Again, I went outside, this time with my phone to record it. This was nothing compared to the earlier noise. The meter is not showing any useage so it’s not a leak between the meter and my house.

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Been on to Essex & Suffolk water and they are sending an engineer out. They seem to think it might indicate a leak before the meter?

Sorted. Well, almost. Engineer came out, tested water pressure (4 bar) and witnessed the noise. He took the meter out, gave it a shake and said they shouldn’t rattle like that. He didn’t have a new meter onboard so he fitted a flow cap so we’ve got free water until another meter can be fitted. He took a photo of the reading and asked me to do the same in case there’s any dispute about usage later on. He said I could fill up my swimming pool and everyone else’s but I mustn’t use a hose.

Great service from Essex and Suffolk water. 10/10 from me.

I spoke too early! Flushed the chain this morning and got the noise. I had to go out and check that they hadn’t fitted another faulty meter.

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They hadn’t!

After I cleared the noise by turning the water on and off again, I went inside and turned the tap on and (slowly) off several times. No noise. Turned it on and (quickly) off and the noise was back.

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Once it has started, turning taps on indoors makes no difference so it’s not as if there’s a tiny leak after the street stopcock and anyway, yesterday there was no movement on the meter when it was turned on or off. Could it be the actual stop cock in the street. Getting really annoying now, I can hear it all the time.

Any ideas?

 

[Wayners]

I don't know but a few things you could try.
Water restriction somewhere and water is hissing as it goes through.

Fill a bucket with outside tap or bath tap.
Time it.
Then at the kitchen tap.
It's not a good test but see if it reveals anything like flow restriction.
If you are ok to do some plumbing remove isolators or anything that could cause restrictions.
Maybe T off at stop tap and test flow there..
You can buy flow and pressure testers but there are people around that can come in and diagnose problems, but you can do a lot yourself if you can plumb.
Id run a single plastic pipe from stop tap to kitchen tap through house to prove fault if I couldn't find a fault by other means.

Also taps can have a filter at connector. That could have grit in that's built up.
You can also have high pressure water mains or low pressure from tank restrictors built in taps.
I bought some taps from Screwfix 75% off on clearance with terrible reviews because they came fitted with restrictor which effected flow and made a noise like your tap.
One of the reviews mentioned this but the instructions never.
I dug out the plastic restriction thing with a screwdriver and I got 3 sets. Brilliant taps for a bargain price that work perfectly.

 

[Mottie]

I don't know but a few things you could try.
Water restriction somewhere and water is hissing as it goes through.

Fill a bucket with outside tap or bath tap.
Time it.
Then at the kitchen tap.
It's not a good test but see if it reveals anything like flow restriction.
If you are ok to do some plumbing remove isolators or anything that could cause restrictions.
Maybe T off at stop tap and test flow there..
You can buy flow and pressure testers but there are people around that can come in and diagnose problems, but you can do a lot yourself if you can plumb.
Id run a single plastic pipe from stop tap to kitchen tap through house to prove fault if I couldn't find a fault by other means.

Also taps can have a filter at connector. That could have grit in that's built up.
You can also have high pressure water mains or low pressure from tank restrictors built in taps.
I bought some taps from Screwfix 75% off on clearance with terrible reviews because they came fitted with restrictor which effected flow and made a noise like your tap.
One of the reviews mentioned this but the instructions never.
I dug out the plastic restriction thing with a screwdriver and I got 3 sets. Brilliant taps for a bargain price that work perfectly.

Thanks, but the noise continues when all taps are off! The meter was showing no let by before it was removed.

 

[Mottie]

I’ve asked around locally and two people have also heard whistling street stopcocks/meters and another has noticed an increase in water pressure so I'm not alone it seems. Can’t reproduce the noise now so it seems to be an early morning thing. Unless it continues, I’ll wait and see how it goes, especially once they’ve fitted a new meter. Might be a coincidence but this all seems to coincide with a burst local main a few days ago.

 

[Wayners]

When you can here a noise. Hiss... When taps are off then you have a underground leak.
Waterboard go around with water listening stick.

Looks online for waterboard works and sign up for alerts

 

[Alec_t]

The toilet fill valve shutting off abruptly can cause water hammer which results in a continuing vibration due to ripples on the water surface in the cistern. I had this happen in a previous house and cured it by attaching a submerged small bottle of water to the ball-valve float arm to provide inertia which damped the vibration.

 

[Mottie]

When you can here a noise. Hiss... When taps are off then you have a underground leak.
Waterboard go around with water listening stick.

Looks online for waterboard works and sign up for alerts

That is what the lady I said when I first rang up the water board but as you can see in the video clip, turning off the main stop cock and turning it back on stops the noise - until I turn a tap on and then off again quickly in the house.

 

[Mottie]

The toilet fill valve shutting off abruptly can cause water hammer which results in a continuing vibration due to ripples on the water surface in the cistern. I had this happen in a previous house and cured it by attaching a submerged small bottle of water to the ball float arm to provide inertia which damped the vibration.

Yeah but the same happens when we are not using the toilet - it also happens with the sink tap because they are a quarter of a turn type (which can be closed quickly) and not ones with a handle that turns off the flow slower. I only mentioned the toilet as that is the first appliance that is used in the morning which starts the whole thing off. I might try the kitchen taps tomorrow morning.

 

[Alec_t]

it also happens with the sink tap

Shutting that off abruptly will cause a pressure pulse to travel around the house pipework, which could trigger water-hammer effects in the toilet cistern.

 

[Mottie]

Shutting that off abruptly will cause a pressure pulse to travel around the house pipework, which could trigger water-hammer effects in the toilet cistern.

No water hammer internally though, just a constant screeching from the stop cock in the street with no flow whatsoever in my house.

 

[dilalio]

If its from their stopcock then its their responsibility.

 

[blup]

Modern taps and fill valves shut off quickly and send a reverse wave that rattles the pipes, or in your case the meter. Nothing else has changed except the meter and the water pressure, so it should be on them

 

[Mottie]

Modern taps and fill valves shut off quickly and send a reverse wave that rattles the pipes, or in your case the meter. Nothing else has changed except the meter and the water pressure, so it should be on them

At the moment, the meter has been removed and replaced with just a cap and I’m still getting a high pitched scream from the street stopcock which travels 50ft along the pipe to our house. If I turn it off and back on, the noise stops. I can turn a tap on and off numerous times with no problem as long as I turn it off reasonably slowly. If I shut it off quickly to replicate a wc fill valve shutting off instantly, the noise starts again. Turning all taps on makes no difference whatsoever to the noise the street stopcock noise makes. Currently in on hold with the water company.

 

[Mottie]

Phoned them at 7.30, 10.00 and 12.00. Been promised a call back but that never came. Last time I said I want to make a formal complaint and I’m going to start complaining to the Chief Exec - I find pestering them usually gets results - it did with Thames water when we got our drains replaced at a cost of around £80k. I was transferred to someone else who put me on hold and eventually came back saying they have authorised for the street/boundary box/stopcock to be replaced - today! I told them that in that case I’ll hold up with my complaint unless that doesn’t happen. I’m only 50/50 as to whether they will actually replace the street box today. We'll see.

 

[blup]

The pressure from the street shouldn’t change much so unless it’s a dodgy batch of meters, the meters themselves aren’t up to the job. I suppose upgrading your supply pipe isn’t feasible? If the pipe is bigger there is more flow and less pressure which might help