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I've left the 3 core alone. I've put the red and black into a connecter in both switches so light should come on without using any switch. It was easier to do that. Now the funny thing When I turned on upstairs fuse box both lights and the front passage came on dim then with the downstairs fuse...

with both reds out no lights work at all.

with the upstairs black out it stops the upstairs light and with the red out I only get volts on it with the downstairs fuse on. does that help?

I taken the black from the downstairs switch and it stops the downstairs light, I get volts on the red when the upstairs fuse is turned on.

Thanks you for your help everone. We really need to be able to switch both lights on from both ends so the latest idea won't work unless both lights could be come on together.

The normal White junction box with a bulb holder hanging from it.

There is a join in the lights, its got 4 cables all 2 core plus an earth and 2 core hanging down. 2 white cables black = N, red = loop white cable black = L, red = loose join Grey cable brown = loop, blue = loose join. The hanging cable brown = L, blue = N

There is a join in the lights, its got 4 cables all 2 core plus an earth and 2 core hanging down. 2 white cables black = N, red = loop white cable black = L, red = loose join Grey cable brown = loop, blue = loose join. The hanging cable brown = L, blue = N

We've just decorated this area and don't want to start ripping walls open

As we usually need both lights on together would there be any way of combining both lights on one circuit?

down stairs the yellow goes into L22 then the red link to L12 but I don't expect it matters.

I missed that, no there is 1 yellow with a red link between the 2 terminals.

When I changed switches at my last house I'm sure there were more wires for exactly the same arrangement

sorry I can't do pictures

On wikipedia they show a 'test light' they show a 'voltage tester with 3 lamps' mine is very old and 4 neons.

the neons tell me what the volts are they show 50v, 100v, 200v or 400v when I put the 2 spikes in live and neutral or earth.

the type with 4 neon on one end and a spike on the other end of the cable.

i've got an old neon tester

If I put both downstairs switches down and both upstairs switches up both light are on if I turn a fuse off bothe lights will stay on, turn the other fuse off the lights go off, turn the first fuse back on both lights come back on

I had to switch both lights fuses off to make the switches safe and in some switch settings bothe lights will work with either fuse off