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you were right Stoday i did presume that the red wires were live and had to be linked together ur were also right when u said i had to understand how two way switching works i was stressed with it last night and couldnt take it in came home today and wired it up and first time its done...

the old ones r the best

this might be better in the diy disaster section but im usually ok with wiring lights up the problem/problems i have had today i cant see me ever trying to deal with electrics again first up i wired a five bulb chandilier to an excisting ceiling rose and it switched on ok, as i have done...

thankful for the help guys