Expensive money-saving idea

[Brigadier]

Going back a few years.....
Local business owner had asbestos insulating boards cladding columns on his factory floor.
Some were in a poor state, so he got quotes for their removal.

Baulking at the figures that came back, he decided to employ a friend of a friend instead, who was an asbestos stripper himself.
So, one cheery Wednesday evening after the employees had gone, the "expert" arrived, and proceeded to weave his magic.

When the employees came back in the following morning, they were greeted by the sight of the previously "a bit knackered" asbestos now being very much more so, with chunks of it strewn all over the place.

Long story short, the factory owner was bang to rights (getting the quotes removed any excuse of ignorance of the facts), and was prosecuted.
Apart from getting bent over by the removal contractors who were called in to clean up the aftemath, the lab. fees over a bank holiday weekend, and having to fork out for mandatory training as part of their penance, I think the HSE fines alone were in excess of £20K.

 

[KenGMac]

Brigadier, Hi

It never ceases to amaze me that there are still people in this world that just do not get it when dealing with this material?

I have previously posted here and there on the board about Asbestos to be met at times with return posts that appear to be blissfully unaware of the really very serious consequences of their actions as regards this material.

I must try to remember this post and refer it to those who appear to treat Asbestos as a benign material with no judicial implications, up to and not confined to massive fines, imprisonment, and a business brought to its knees if not Liquidated, as an aside there is no recourse to the insurer of the firm who are being prosecuted for an Asbestos related problem.

Ken.

Ken

 

[underwurlde]

To which type of Asbestos are you referring?

 

[KenGMac]

underwurlde, Hi.

Have a look again at the OP?

This is a Commercial establishment?

The Owner is obliged by H&SE to have an Asbestos register compiled, to allow the Owner to provide advice to any visiting tradesman of the presence of Asbestos, this to allow the Contractor to take the requisite precautions as regards safeguarding his, the Contractors personnel whilst they work on the property.

The type of Asbestos well who knows in this case?

Ken

 

[underwurlde]

Heh, I ask because recently my place of work has suddenly been stickered with loads of '!! WARNING, ASBESTOS !!' labels on the walls etc. Interestingly, no one raised so much as an eyebrow and nothing has been done to remove any of it.

Researching, I found that there are many different types of Asbestos, some dangerous, others not so and hence the term 'asbestos' can be quite confusing and indeed scary (I remember the 'one fiber can kill' warnings).

Andy

 

[KenGMac]

Andy, Hi

HSE requirement is for the property owner to compile a register of where Asbestos may be lurking, the type is irrelevant under this requirement.

The Object of the requirement is so the property owner can manage the Asbestos found in the building, or indeed thought to be in the Property, this so some unsuspecting tradesman does not get himself and all of the workers in the property exposed to the material.

it is not a requirement to remove the material once located, unless it is in the direct area of the work that is proposed, what the HSE have set up is a form of advanced warning that the material is there and from that point appropriate measures can be taken.

It is HSE advice that the asbestos, whatever type be encapsulated, that is closed in somewhere, such as floor tiles may have a carpet laid on top of them, but the warning stickers you refer to have to be placed close to the offending floor tiles, say on the skirting boards.

Same thing applies to suspended ceilings, or in the case of lagged pipe work, signs on the walls adjacent to the offending material at frequent intervals is generally the way to go, each case is different, depends on the local environment surrounding the Asbestos.

Ken

 

[Brigadier]

To which type of Asbestos are you referring?

Going back a few years.....
Local business owner had asbestos insulating boards cladding columns on his factory floor.
Some were in a poor state, so he got quotes for their removal.

Asbestos insulating boards - these readily release large amounts of inhalable asbestos fibres, if even very minor disturbance to them is carried out.
Probably amosite (grunerite) aka "brown", and chrysotile, aka "white". A while ago, so can't be sure.

Both types can cause cancer.

It is pretty pointless arguing about which type of asbestos is present (blue / brown / white); what matters is the likelihood of the fibres disappearing up your nostrils.


As so many people hear "asbestos" and take leave of all sense, I'll describe it in terms that are easier to picture.


Inhaling cement dust is bad for you.
If I put a bag of cement in an underfloor pipe run, put the hatch down, and stop anyone from going down there, will anyone inhale any cement dust?
The answer is no, btw.

If I put a bag of cement up against the wall, and warn everyone not to touch it, will anyone inhale any cement dust?
Still, no.

If I don't warn anyone, and an unsuspecting tradesman cuts a hole in the bag, will he inhale any cement dust?
Almost certainly.

Same material, in same state, yet differing outcomes. But, being cement dust in a bag, it is naturally in a pretty vulnerable state, and so any uncontrolled disturbance is likely to lead to someone breathing some dust in.


Contrast this with a block of concrete. Still contains the harmful cement dust but, because of its concreteness, you'd have to go some, to get the dust out to breathe.
Because it is inherently more robust, you can be less rigorous in "managing" risks from your hypothetical block of concrete, compared to your hypothetical bag of cement.

Remember - the only factor to consider is "will any asbestos go up anyone's nose?" Everything else is just background information, to aide that simple, primary consideration.