Heating leak but from Ideal Logic boiler or pipework?

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North Herts
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Hi,

For the past few weeks I have been dealing with a a loss of pressure in my heating system.
The boiler is an Ideal Logic System 30, about 7 years old. Naturally, the warrantly has just expired!
I was seeing a pressure of drop of approx 0.5 bar per week and it would take about a half litre to top the system up. In the last week or so the pressure has been dropping faster. I am npow topping up 0.5 bar every couple of days.

The boiler is in a kitchen wall cupboard and is basically spotless. Was serviced regularly and last in September and the engineer couldn't find any issues at the time. He knew about the pressure dropping and checked expansion vessel etc. The pressure rises about 0.75 bar from cold to hot and there is nothing escaping from the PRV - I put a bag around it and pressure never goes above 3 bar.

I have checked all the rads and all the pipework I can see. Tried to inspect under the house but it's very difficult to see any slow leaks, even with an inspection camera. There are no obvious signs anywhere - no marks on the floors or ceilings. Some of the heating pipework is under the tiled kitchen floor extension but that pipework is only 3.5 years old and again, no signs of damp above it or under kitchen cupboards.I was very fussy about the underfloor pipework and there are no connections under there...just pipes from the boiler under the floor and into a cupboard for connection.

I have capped off the filling loop and checked all airing cupboard pipework for leaks.

I now need to determine whether it is a system leak or a boiler leak so will attempt to isolate the boiler later this week when it's not freezing cold. If it turns out to be the boiler then I can decide on repair or replace. If it is a pipework leak then I can use the 'trace and access' home insurance option to get a specialist in rather than tearing up boards.

Has anyone come across this issue with Ideal Logic System boilers - pressure dropping but no obvious leaks? Because the pressure is now dropping daily, I should be able to confirm pretty quickly as I have a gauge on the boiler and one in the airing cupboard upstairs.
Can I still use hot water heating when boiler is isolated?

The 3 port valve is working properly - no warm rads when HW is on.
Will the boiler still leak if it is turned off completely?
I have immersion and electric heat if necessary but would rather wait for a 10 degree day or two.
 
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No you cant use the HW with the boiler isolated unless of course you have an immersion heater in which case you can, you may have a pinholed heat exchanger that is passing into the Condensate pipe so you dont notice it, only way to test is switch the boiler off and see if there is a drip from the condensate with the boiler switched off
 
Thanks Ian. When I get home I'll turn it off and let it cool down a bit, then put something under the drain pipe outside which is specifically for the boiler condensate. Then we sit back and wait...
 
Thanks Ian. When I get home I'll turn it off and let it cool down a bit, then put something under the drain pipe outside which is specifically for the boiler condensate. Then we sit back and wait...
yes that is exactly what to do, it wont pour out but if you are getting a steady drip with everything off that is the most likely cause of your problem
 
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I put a bag around the drain for about 4 hours last night while the boiler was off. There was about 100ml or so in there plus what looks like small metallic fragments. Will isolate in the next couple of days and leave the condensate pipe off so it can just drain under the boiler but I'm pretty sure it's not a pipe leak now. Going to use SSE to do a fixed price repair as I can't even get through to Ideal to discuss getting them to do it. They are totally snowed under and have even taken down their web page for repairs and warranty extending. I'm p'd off because the warranty ran out two months ago and I've been looking for a system leak on and off since July .....
 
Sounds very much like a failed heat exchanger to me. It's a common problem on these boilers (although Ideal will insist that it isn't). The sumps have a habit of cracking too, which won't be your current problem but if you do go for a repair then it's worth getting your sump replaced at the same time if you can.
 
Hopefully I'll find out later today if the engineer makes it. Isolated the boiler this morning by turning the two black valves and will check the two pressure gauges later. They didn't want to close off fully but I didn't push too hard just in case.
 
Engineer visit but isolation valves wouldn't close off properly so couldn't diagnose. Getting them replaced and will then try again. Will be a few days no doubt. Guy was recommending getting another small expansion vessel added to the system although I'm not really sure what that's got to do with a possible heat exchanger leak.
 
They are totally snowed under and have even taken down their web page for repairs and warranty extending. I'm p'd off because the warranty ran out two months ago and I've been looking for a system leak on and off since July
They are all out changing heat exchangers and sumps :rolleyes:
 
Quick update on this one. Was supposed to have another engineer out last Thurs. Waited all afternoon and evening. Didn't show up and no communication. Phoned SSE and cancelled my arrangement with them and they have offered a full refund - not that they did anything! Sub contractors they use tried to pull a fast one and added a 'service' to the bill, which was not done and not even discussed. Cheeky buggers. I spoke to Ideal and have an engineer arranged for tomorrow on their extended warranty scheme. System is losing pressure faster now so I do hope they can diagnose and hopefully have the necessary parts in the van. Helpline seemed to agree with me that it is looking like heat exchanger but we'll find out soon enough.
 
Ideal came out today and did a quick test, determined there was indeed a loss of pressure from the heat exchanger (who knew!) and put a new one in there. Also pumped up my expansion vessel. So far it's looking good. No pressure drop and cold > hot pressure increase is only about 0.5 bar thanks to the vessel being pumped up. Now I just need to keep an eye on it for a little while to make sure there are no leaks anywhere else.
Gotta say, fantastic service from Ideal. Great communication and all done within a couple of hours as engineers carry all the parts. I'd definitely recommend.
 

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