I've broken my Primatic Fortic cylinder?

[WhydidIstart]

Hi, I have recently moved into a 1960s house with all plumbing more or less untouched from the 1960s.

I'm struggling to understand what is going on and am hoping someone on here will be able to help me out! I was expecting 3 tanks in the loft space - a large cold water one and 2 smaller F&E ones for the central heating system and hot water. Well when I looked I found none at all, which confused me greatly. Ok, no large tank as all the cold taps are fed directly from the mains. My first question is why do some houses have a big tank and others don't?

Now I found the hot water tank and this looks like a fortic type with a small tank directly on top of the water tank. Green corrosion all over the tank where most connections have been leaking for years. Now I ran the hot taps and the tank in the top of the cylinder started to fill - so I assumed this was the hot water expansion tank.

However I wondered where was the central heating expansion tank? So I opened a radiator drain valve and listened for water and the same tank started to fill as for the hot water. This puzzled me for a while, but searching on here has made me think that I have a primatic fortic tank so there is an air bubble that separates the heating water and also allows for expansion of the heating water, does that sound correct? I have also probably destroyed the air bubble now as I can't get any water out of the hot taps now - but don't mind as the tank has to go anyway.

I have already bought a Heatre Sadia Mega Flo pressurised cylinder as a replacement as I would like good mains pressure hot water and don't want another header tank. However this leaves me with a problem - what about the heating expansion tank. If I'm right, this was previously done in the primatic cylinder, so I assume I will either need a new header tank fitted (which I don't want to do) or go to a pressurised system with an expansion vessel. Is this easy to do and are there any likely problems that I will come across?

Any help and advice greatly welcomed...

 

[weareleeds]

You will also need to convert system to fully pumped & if you seal it you will need to route a safety blow off pipe to outside & probably change rad valves

 

[AlanE]

And a Megaflow pressureised cylinder is NOT a simple swap job. They do need to be installed by a person holding a G3 certificate.

They are also notifiable to local building control.

 

[topgazza]

Just to confirm what Alan said. I had one fitted some 3 years ago and finding a qualified fitter was not impossible but took a little time, probably more common now...

Was having loft conversion and building regs did a quick visit to check position etc etc. All went well however

 

[Fluffster]

I hope you checked your flowrate and pressure before you purchased the megaflow?
Pete

 

[WhydidIstart]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the replies, I assume as no one has corrected me I do have a (broken) primatic fortic tank fitted at the moment. I am aware of the building regs and need to notify, but am hoping to do some of the plumbing and installation myself and leave the checks and final connections to the professionals.

As for the pressure and flow, no I didn’t check as this tank was a second hand bargain for £300 rather than the £1070 +VAT normally charged and only used for 6 months on a project before I got it, so I figured I could always sell it again if necessary. Luckily the pressure and flow seem good and when fitting a new garden tap (old one had no double check valve or shutoff valve + it had old style thread) and new bathroom plumbing I have replaced existing old piping and valves with full bore gate valves to maximise the available flow which seems really good now.

Weareleeds – why may I need new rad valves for a pressurised system, it is because the old ones may leak under the higher operating pressures?

Re fully pumped system – I currently have the 28mm pipes coming straight from the boiler and 15mm rad pipes T-joined off these with the pump sitting in line with one of these I think. Is the idea to move the pump to one of the 28mm pipes and then using a 3-way motorised valve (or 2 2-way ones) feed either the cylinder or rads or both controlled via room and tank thermostats, etc?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Fluffster]

When going from an open system to sealed it is wise to check the integrity of all pipework and fittings.
This includes rad valves and the seams of the rads as the increase in pressure may find a weakness in the system.

The pump is usually next to the cylinder all depending if you buy a ready made kit which speeds up installation and abides by the regs in terms of the strict positioning and distance of certain pipework and fittings.

Pete

 

[topgazza]

One again in support of what has been said. the guy who did mine did a thorough water pressure test to make sure I had enough..oomph...in my pipes ..ooooh missus...I did.

...post install he spent ages checking for leaks around joints he could see, rads etc...did a great job.

Said it before and I'll say it again..going pressure system was the best thing I've had done in the house.

 

[WhydidIstart]

OK thanks - I'll try pressurising the system as a test.

topgazza - why was a pressurised system so good, do you get any other benefits apart from loosing the tank in the loft?

 

[topgazza]

Solid mains pressure in every tap hot and cold, terrific showers with no need for pumps...the first time I had a shower it blew the shower head off....buy a decent one

Also mains cold water upstairs that you can drink...small point but I find it useful. I'm convinced the rads heat up quicker...but wouldn't swaer to it. Yes, the loss of water tanks is a plus and I'm sure the techie guys could point out any other benefits to the system.

It just feels right....

 

[WhydidIstart]

Yes, hopefully that's what I'm aiming for. I was getting confused and thought you were talking about the central heating being pressurised.

Hopefully the Megaflo tank will work well - it seems a neat design having the pressure vessel built in and looks clean and tidy.