UFH using Alu plates

[Scoo]

Hello all,
I have quite a large project going on at the moment and are undertaking a chunk of the work ourselves,
We are extending a typical ‘2 bed & a box’ semi two stories at the side & also single story at the rear,
We have done a few months on it now, ripping out old stuff & have a builder starting in the next few weeks to put up the shell but after that we are on our own, so I find myself spending most of my nights reading forums about everything from the insulation values of insulation to how to sink steel beams in a floor..

The plan is to install UFH throughout downstairs & in the bathroom.
After much deliberation and reading of threads I am planning rip up the floorboards & use the aluminium spreader plate system downstairs. I know this is slightly more expensive than screed but I have concerns about alot of additional weight.

I am going with engineered wood as the floor covering but I was wondering if I was to lay down 1mm thick aluminium plates between the floor covering & the UFH spreader plates would this improve the heat dissipation/distribution?

Currently I am thinking it could be benificial as it is surly going to increase the thermal mass of the 0.3mm UFH spreader plates,
I cannot find anything on the net about this option, and there is normally a good reason for that!

The main reasons behind me considering this idea are
1. If it does increase the efficiency of the UFH greatly at a slight cost in reaction time then great
2. I can get these plates though a friend quite inexpensively
3. I am wondering about a bouncing effect when walking, of using unsecured engineering board straight down on joists and would think a conductive material would serve better rather than another insulator (eg 5mm plywood)

I would appreciate any comments on the above idea,

 

[Tipper]

Adding aluminium over the as bought system seems a good idea to me presumbly it's not done due to the cost.

A few other thoughts;

I have the Wavin Hep20 system throughout and the warmth felt through the flooring is quite patchy/stripey so more heat spreader plate may help this. But maybe there is a limit to the heat transfer with respect to the width of the aluminium worth fitting? Or perhaps it's just cost.

My system relies upon a 'structural floor' layer over the heating pipes/insulation either when set between the joists or as a fully floating floor where there is solid floor. This structural layer is 18mm chipboard for strength. We have then laid engineered laminate, MDF cored for stability, over for the final floor. We avoided real wood due to a friend having real problems with expansion/shrinkage and the surface lifting, etc. We were also warned off using engineered boards as direct floor boards with no structral layer. Getting enough thickness for strength seemed difficult and the cost high.

Finally the speader plates don't add 'thermal mass' as the floor both heats and cools relatively quickly, it's more a case of conducting the heat from the pipes and insulation to the under surface of the flooring. It also gives a fast response time that solid screeds don't. What would assist, except for response time, would be a thermally conductive structural flooring, maybe a dense cement based and thus heavier chipboard. This is used for acoustic insulation but it includes a rubber layer as a sound break onto joists. You would need one without the rubber insulation! Wavin do a chipboard with pipes in it but I felt that gave too many joints for potential future leak problems.

Hope some of that is useful and would be interested to hear what you go for.

 

[muggles]

UFH systems are designed to work as they are manufactured. Changing the design by adding extra components might well invalidate the design warranty from the UFH supplier (good suppliers will guarantee that the system they supply will provide the level of heating you require when they are correctly installed)

If it ain't broke......

 

[Scoo]

Thanks for your thoughts on this guys, much appreciated,

Tipper,
I am with you on the real wood or even relaying the old boards, I have read too much about creaking, noises & surface lifting as well.

It’s interesting what you say about adding 18mm chipboard below the engineering board though, my initial reaction would be that this would act as an insulator and restrict the heat from passing through to the room, but on further consideration I can see how, once warmed through it could act as thermal mass and remain warm.

I am a spark by trade, and for me a material is either a conductor or an insulator, but with heating there seems to be a bit of middle ground!

My only concern from your post is that if the chipboard is acting as a kind of thermal mass, I would have thought that the warmth felt through would be quite even spread & not patchy as you describe. Maybe I’m wrong?

Muggles,
It is a good point, the warranty of the product, one that I overlooked if I am honest,

On improving the system, I would think that a UFH system is supplied into the market, like most things, with the end price being a large factor.
I expect that a company would design a system to hit a cost to efficiency threshold, where making it a couple of % more efficient could not be justified against the large amount of £ ‘s required.

Plus I have read so many threads of people not completely satisfied with the installed system, either not enough heat transmitted or patchy heat.


Although I do think the Aluminium plates might be a good idea, I wouldn’t know if securing them, to avoid rattle or leaving them loose to expand/contract is the better option, maybe a plastic membrane may help with the noise caused by friction

 

[muggles]

Price is a factor but the degree to which it is a factor undoubtedly varies from company to company. As for people not being satisfied with their systems, it's quite possible that they went for 'cheap and nasty' rather than a good-quality system from a reputable supplier. I personally like Nu-Heat, who will give you full guarantees that the heating will be effective. They also have a good range of systems for retro-fit including the kind you're looking for.

I think your aluminium plates will cost you more than you'll save

 

[transam]

ally plates laid over floor

this used to be or still is ? the set up that used to come with the Robbens ufh
system for suspended wooden floors

 

[Scoo]

Fair point you make muggles,
I have had a look at the nu heat website & their info is quite comprehensive,
The low pro max solution seems interesting as no structural ply is needed between that & the floor finish,

Have you or anyone used this particular solution before?

 

[muggles]

Fair point you make muggles,
I have had a look at the nu heat website & their info is quite comprehensive,
The low pro max solution seems interesting as no structural ply is needed between that & the floor finish,

Have you or anyone used this particular solution before?

Not yet but I'll be laying some in a couple of weeks time. I think the Max is primarily designed for solid floor substrates but the LoPro10 would be good for wooden floors