Firage v Clegg - EU Debate

[RogueHanger]

Just a further contribution to the credibility of Nigel Farage. I have now, eventually, watched the debate. To highlight one issue raised by Nick Farage (sic David Dimbleby):

“Indeed Baroness Cathy Ashton, the British Commissioner, is pushing very hard for a European Air Force and for a series of drones [...] Now it is a European Union, that wants an air force, an army, a Navy, and wants to militarily intervene”. Nigel Farage

But, the EEAS (the body which supports Baroness Ashton in her role as High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy) told us the report was referring to capabilities of a civilian nature, such as border monitoring by the European border agency Frontex. They also said that the European Commission has no competence in military matters and that this was repeatedly made clear by the Commission.

So it seems the proposals were misinterpreted.

https://fullfact.org/europe/european_air_force_drones_army_farage_clegg-31052
Full Fact is an independent fact checking organisation.

So what is Nigel Farage? A politican who wilfully misinterprets EU proposals and represents those misinterpreted proposals as fact to support his argument? Another case of argumentum ad absurdum obviously.
Or is he a politician who genuinely and mistakenly has not understood the proposals correctly? Mali principii malus finis. (Just to even it up with another Latin phrase)

So Nigel Farage is either a dangerous politician who wilfully misrepresents proposals, or an idiot who doesn't fully understand them.

OK. He's got my vote.

 

[joe-90]

So let's vote Lib/lab/con and join every conflict in the world just for fun. FFS - Farage is reading between the lines. It's a natural progression for a European Superstate. Look a the globe - the UK is a tiny island. Time to mind our own business.

 

[RogueHanger]

So let's vote Lib/lab/con and join every conflict in the world just for fun.

Reductio ad absurdum

FFS - Farage is reading between the lines. It's a natural progression for a European Superstate.

So you admit that Farage is taking a gamble on his "prediction" to come to fruition.

Look a the globe - the UK is a tiny island. Time to mind our own business.

Sure, your right, so is Cuba a tiny island alongside a superstate.

I would heartliy support your assertion that UK should be minding its own business more often.
Was EU in favour of Iraq intervention?

 

[joe-90]

Take a look at the map of the world and the size of other nations compared to the UK. Who the fook do we think we are? We are about as important (and impotent) as Cuba. Time to accept that we are the little skinny kid in the playground.

 

[RogueHanger]

Take a look at the map of the world and the size of other nations compared to the UK. Who the fook do we think we are? We are about as important (and impotent) as Cuba. Time to accept that we are the little skinny kid in the playground.

Exactly, Joe. To quote BT, it doesn't matter who says it, if it's true, it's true!

 

[securespark]

Why did you leave your kitchen window down there?

 

[jeds]

What Clegg probably wanted to say was; you're just saying anything that sounds popular knowing you'll never have to put it into practise. I'll bet he'd bitten half his tongue off by the end.

 

[joe-90]

Neither will Clegg.

 

[Doug99]

A scenario:

1. Why do you vote Labour?..........Because my Mum & Dad have always done so.
2. Why do you vote Conservative?............Because I can afford to.
3. Why do you vote Liberal?...........Dunno.....Because I'm sort of in between?
4. Why do you support UKIP?........Because I want to try something different!
5. Why don't you vote?........Because I don't care!.....Too lazy....et al!

Unfortunately the 5th option always records the highest % at elections.

 

[EFLImpudence]

5. Why don't you vote?........Because I don't care!.....Too lazy....et al!

Is that why MPs abstain?

No, it's because we don't want ANY of the candidates.

The system is not there for OUR benefit so, with very few exceptions who do look after their constituents, there is no difference between candidates.
Therefore it doesn't matter which you choose.
Therefore there's no point choosing one.

 

[Norcon]

I can see why Firage won yesterday's debate by a landslide. Clegg played the typical professional politician by being 'Anti Firage' throughout, rather than putting forward his 'Pro-EU' case.

Roll on the May elections as UKIP is going to give the major parties a rather large boot up their backsides!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10151655/EU-referendum-law-hits-trouble.html

The referendum law that clegg was banging on about in the debate is not even legally binding.
Just another political maneuver to deceive people.
As if any uk straw mans law (even if binding) could ever trumph the laws of the eu dictatorship.
Its just goes to show how desperate they are.
Time and time again clegg has shown himself to be a prolific liar.

 

[RogueHanger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10151655/EU-referendum-law-hits-trouble.html

The referendum law that clegg was banging on about in the debate is not even legally binding.
Just another political maneuver to deceive people.
As if any uk straw mans law (even if binding) could ever trumph the laws of the eu dictatorship.
Its just goes to show how desperate they are.
Time and time again clegg has shown himself to be a prolific liar.

I suspect that you are confusing two issues:
1. The conservatives have pomised a referendum in 2017, if they are re-elected and after they have attempted to re-negotiate the terms of UK membership of EU.
2. The conservatives have proposed a law ensuring that UK people have a referendum if there is any major succession of power to EU in the future.

So, for my benefit, could you explain which of these two issues your comments refer to. Otherwise it's difficult to present an opposing view.

 

[Dextraneous]

Since the UK government refuses to invoke article 50, there cannot be any renegotiation of powers or prevention of succession of further powers. It's a mystery why Farage fails to point this out It's also a mystery why he fails to bust the myth of the UK losing out of having a say by not being a member state in terms of being part of the free market.

 

[Norcon]

I don't believe a single word they say so its irrellevant which one I was referring too.
Since you believe it then more fool you.

But present your opposing view anyways as its always good for a laff.

 

[RogueHanger]

Since the UK government refuses to invoke article 50, there cannot be any renegotiation of powers or prevention of succession of further powers. It's a mystery why Farage fails to point this out It's also a mystery why he fails to bust the myth of the UK losing out of having a say by not being a member state in terms of being part of the free market.

I'm assuming that Dave Cameon will attempt to re-negotiate, whilst holding the threat of invokation of Article 50, i.e. the unilateral succession of UK from EU.
The poposed backbencher law, as I understand it, is that in any future succession of power to EU, a referendum would be held to decide if Article 50 should be invoked or the succession of power be allowed.

I believe Nigel, given the opportunity will simply invoke Article 50. He has, as I understand it, mentioned the position of Switzerland and other states being part of the free-trading partneship without any representation in EU.