New install- pay *after* got cert, and No TDS test, regrets?

[Safety First]

Sorry about the tabloid-esque subject- trying to fit 2 q's in one topic.

New Vaillant Ecotech 831. Install in one day took about 9 hours- two guys working, though they had to re-route a hot water pipe, maybe 30 minutes work.

Appeared that there were no cold spots on rads; closed system, 12 years old, microbore. Installer (vaillant approved) said no need to clean first, but was ok with my adding Fernox F3, 3 days before install. We ran it very hot for about 2 hours per day, and on low for another 2 hrs.

With my adding F3 ahead of his guys, he said he would then, drain, rinse (not PF), fit new boiler, fill with cleaner, drain/rinse, fill with inhibitor.

TBH i have no reason to believe that he did not do any of the above. I just now wonder, given than a.n.other contractor said he used meter to gauge TDS and applied printout to paperwork, should I get this done?

I am wondering about gettin 3rd party to give TDS tests and hold this on file in case of failure that Vaillant say is due to poor/dirty install.

More mistrustful of big companies than the contractor....

......

Finally, the thread below (while seeking answers to mine) got me wondering, should I wait for a cert (Gas-safe) before paying? Tried out- boiler, seems to work fine?


Read more: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=972500#972500#ixzz3IzIPpTx6

 

[FiremanT]

A lot of installers withhold the cert UNTIL they get paid - which I think is fair enough. I insist on payment before leaving job.

it is not common to TDS and printout. I nearly always PF and use a turbiity tube to demonstrate cleanliness. So no print out.

You presumably chose the installer not offering a printout - or a cleanse - was he cheaper.? If I read correctly,you knew the system should be cleansed, but chose an installer that didn't. Now you are worried, and want to change the deal.

IMO you should make sure he is gas Safe registered and pay up, He will have bills to pay like most of us,

 

[Bunnyman]

As he said always get cheque on completion

 

[Safety First]

I insist on payment before leaving job.

Sounds fair enough, our installer offered 'use and be happy with it, then pay me on invoice'. None of the other (4-5) quotes stipulated pay before leaving the job....

I would have discounted anyone unwilling to let me get at least a weeks use of the boiler before leaving. Just me....

it is not common to TDS and printout. I nearly always PF and use a turbiity tube to demonstrate cleanliness. So no print out.

What is turb' tube? Do you mean this is demonstrated to customer or is part of your own process- to eyeball the cleanliness of the water?

If I read correctly,you knew the system should be cleansed, but chose an installer that didn't. Now you are worried, and want to change the deal.

No, He said given reports of system no sludge/coldspots, he planned not to clean, unless drain-off was surprisingly dirty. I said I'd rather clean it anyway, thus added F3 ahead of job. I think he was bemused about this. There is no 'changing the deal'- how are you seeing 'change of deal'? I said at end of the Gas Safe Cert query, that it seems to work fine. This was my way of noting that I am happy with it as it is?

I queried the option of getting a 3rd party TDS reading (thinking this would add more weight against Vailant in case of disputes. A technician that did not do install has no vested interest in results, no?).

My plan is to pay on invoice , get third party TDS reading. If reading is bad, get installer back to cleans- or try to. Expectation is that TDS will read good btw. The installer may for all I know have used Turb tube? If I have guessed its use correctly?

The matter of holding payment until Gas Safe cert was an aside (to the TDS issue). I have no idea about what makes sensible/reasonable working with installers, hence asking. The Linked to post (inspiring my question) didn't feature any disapproval that I noticed. I imagined this was the 'top-tip'/common sense means of making sure you got important paperwork from busy tradesman who's forte is not admin...

His Oftec and Gas Safe details are on his quote.

He will have bills to pay like most of us,

You don't say...?

 

[Safety First]

And any idea how much a TDS test would cost?

Am assuming that a turb tube is decent means of establishing a clean system, but that does not cut it with Vailant in case of disputes- quite like a print-out?

 

[stardanny]

What is TDS?

Daniel.

 

[Agile]

Total Dissolved Solids !

 

[Safety First]

What is TDS?

Daniel.

Edit- slow typing/waffler fail!

Total dissolved solids. I understand that it is where testing devices are used during a cleansing of system. It tells you when the TDS in the system are within 10% of tap water, i.e., 'clean'.

Guessing that Waterboard are allowed a certain range of TDS themselves in their product. Easiest way to deal with a target TDS range is to link it, by %, to tapwater quality,.... maybe, anyone?

 

[Agile]

It does not exactly tell you when its within 10% of tap water.

But a measurement can be made of system water first and then the tap water!

It is not terribly important unless anyone is expecting to become involved in an argument.

Tony

 

[Safety First]

It is not terribly important unless anyone is expecting to become involved in an argument.

Tony

I tend to imagine/worry quite a lot.
We have 4 Co detectors in our home. ...


Risk assessment gone wrong somewhere....

 

[Agile]

CO detectors have little purpose unless you have old fashioned open flued appliances or open fires (of ANY fuel ).

Your new boiler is room sealed and unless severely wrongly assembled will not allow gas products to enter the room.

Tony

 

[Corgigrouch]

Another wally who's angling for a discount.....Now I remember why I no longer fit domestic gas boilers

.......NOA

 

[FiremanT]

And any idea how much a TDS test would cost?

Am assuming that a turb tube is decent means of establishing a clean system, but that does not cut it with Vailant in case of disputes- quite like a print-out?

I actually have a TDS meter, but (AFAIK) with no print out facility. They are only a hundred quid or so, probably less. Bought from Kamco. I am more comfortable with the turbidity tube.

To be fair, no print out or document stating the good health of the water will have any impact with a manufacturer. If they were querying the water condition, they would only be interested in the state of the water at the time of the fault/claim. Lots of things could occur between the test and the problem. The only benefit of the printout (or lack thereof) would be in relation to YOU making a claim of some sort against the installer.

For the sake of transparency, companies like Fernox offer an analysis service, but I have no real idea of how to arrange

 

[Dean744PiN5]

Any a good top tip for installers is never notify the boiler until customer pays as they have a habit of forgetting once they have everything.
You have the boiler it is fitted and working, your installer advised against flush if you didn't agree with this you should have chose someone else, but you obviousley have gone for the cheapest quote.
If you have a test and it fails how can you "make the installer clean the system" he doesn't have a legal obligation to do so as he didn't say he was going to flush and didn't charge you for one. So even if you do ask him to be is entitled to charge accordingly.

You payed your money you made your choice.

 

[Safety First]

Another wally who's angling for a discount.....Now I remember why I no longer fit domestic gas boilers

.......NOA

Another wally who's angling for a discount.....Now I remember why I no longer fit domestic gas boilers

.......NOA

Which part of

1.... "I am happy with it as it is?"

2. ..."My plan is to pay on invoice"

Do you NOT understand?

Could your input be ignored on basis of your name? Or are you genuinely interpreting what I have said as a sign that a discount is my goal.

I have talked about:
A. getting a 3rd party measurement of the TDS. 3rd party being an advantage to me and the installer, in that it might be more weighty than an installers own measurement if/when Vailant and I are in dispute.
B. Withholding payment until getting a Gas safe Cert. I read (and understand) the feedback that this is a daft idea, as installers practice is probably going to be himself holding onto it until I pay up, hence (re-read if you are in the mood), point 1 and 2, above.

Fireman T has put me straight on the merits (not as great as I'd imagined, which is good news really) of having a TDS reading at install. Seems (reasonable) that Vailant will be more interested in state TDS at point of failure than at install.

Only one of the 5 quotes included TDS process. TDS installer was not the most expensive.