Plastic led floodlight 20w has only live and neutral but no earth

Thanks for all your answers and advice. I looked at the instructions that came with the floodlight and the symbol that you Iggifer mentioned is on there as per scan attached. I guess that means that as you say no earth is necessary. Thanks
Yes, that's correct. Ignore the recent discussion between EFLI and myself, since it would only really be a potential issue in relation to a situation much more complex than yours.

Kind Regards, John
 
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I was going to say that there isn't a distance mentioned, perhaps there is no need. ... This almost seems to obvious to discuss or have any doubt. I cannot help thinking you have something else in mind.
I sort-of did....

... I have a fairly large room which has six 3-lamp/bulb light fittings (not so bad with LEDs, but was a bit ridiculous with incandescents, albeit it's a room which is not often used!). Quite possibly in the belief that it would save cable, they have all been connected to a 'central' JB, with the supply feed and switch connected to that (i.e. a 'star' arrangement).

They are actually Class I fittings, so the issue doesn't actually arise (since they all need CPCs). However, you got me wondering what would be the situation, regs-wise, if they were Class 2. Is it your view that it would be acceptable to run 2-core cable from the JB to each fitting, given that at least four of them are several feet from the JB ('as the cable flies') - i.e. regarding that JB as the 'point' to which a CPC had to be run?

Kind Regards, John
 
Is it your view that it would be acceptable to run 2-core cable from the JB to each fitting, given that at least four of them are several feet from the JB ('as the cable flies') - i.e. regarding that JB as the 'point' to which a CPC had to be run?
Not according to the regulations.

Look at it the simple way - you, and the OP, should be be able to fit a class 1 item, at any point, without the need to rewire anything.
Or to put it another way, a DIYer will not be tempted to connect a class 1 item without a missing CPC.

To state the obvious, if the OP buys a class 1 light next time, he will need a short 3 core flex.
 
A 20 watt LED driver in an all plastic / nylon might have a problem disipating the waste heat. It shouldn't be much heat ( a watt or two ) but if the housing is thermally non conductive the temperature of the driver and LED elements is going to be high. Not good for reliability and / or long life.

A watt or two?? More like 15W heat dissipation at least
 
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A 20 watt LED driver in an all plastic / nylon might have a problem disipating the waste heat. It shouldn't be much heat ( a watt or two ) but if the housing is thermally non conductive the temperature of the driver and LED elements is going to be high. Not good for reliability and / or long life.
It is possible the "driver" is nothing more than a capacitor limiting the current through the LED elements, not much waste heat but very short life for the LED elements due to very control of the current through the LED elements.
It does appear to have multiple ventilation holes.

Maybe the plastic / nylon is a coating on a metal case, if that is how the unit is built then an Earth to the metal would be preferable.
No, it is Class 2 and, as such, is better without an earth. That's why they made it Class 2.
Do not unnecessarily complicate things and confuse Woodman.


The 10 watt units I use have finned metal heat sinks and are Earthed.
So, totally different, then.
It could be a metal cooker, but it isn't.
 
Not according to the regulations. Look at it the simple way - you, and the OP, should be be able to fit a class 1 item, at any point, without the need to rewire anything.
Fair enough, but you are applying common sense, but seemingly calling it a regulation (which, as far as I am aware, is a regulation which doesn't exist) - namely a regulation specifying a maximum distance between the end of the CPC and the Class 2 item concerned.

As I said, I'm trying to learn, so I'm trying to get a feel as to roughly what you think the cut-off distance is. The OP's floodlight seemingly had a very short factory-fitted lead (I would have thought inconveniently short in many cases - unless the photo is misleading, I think it might struggle to get through an outside wall and into anything) - but what if it were 1m long? ... or 1.5m or 2m?

Kind Regards, John
 
Maybe thats the reason for it having short lead, to limit the length of unearthed cable, they all seem to be made like that the ones with 2 core, the ones i have brought with 3 core fitted do seem to have longer leads, but them fittings do usually require earth, even with Link lights, Transformers, drivers etc you will get up to about a 1 metre 2 core lead, I regard that as part of the fitting and an Earth conductor need only be supplied up to the point that they terminate, which is usually limited to the length of that supplied fitted 2 core, I dont feel it acceptable to extend that fitted cable further with 2 core, or to dismantle and fit a longer 2 core.
 
Transformers, drivers etc you will get up to about a 1 metre 2 core lead, I regard that as part of the fitting and an Earth conductor need only be supplied up to the point that they terminate, which is usually limited to the length of that supplied fitted 2 core ...
I wonder what EFLI feels about that? I got the impression that he probably would think that 2 metres would be too much (probably about the same as my lights I mentioned), but maybe I'm wrong.

Kind Regards, John
 
I wonder what EFLI feels about that? I got the impression that he probably would think that 2 metres would be too much (probably about the same as my lights I mentioned), but maybe I'm wrong.
Well, why would one fit a transformer 2m. away?

One wouldn't do that and leave it out of reach through a downlight hole.
If the transformer is feeding more than one lamp then the supply cable could be left accessible at one of the locations.

This really is just common sense so that class 1 fittings may be connected instead.
 
Well, why would one fit a transformer 2m. away? One wouldn't do that and leave it out of reach through a downlight hole.
We're not talking about installing the transformer 2m away from the light - but, rather, of having it (probably close to the light) 2m away from where its factory-fitted (2-core) cable connects to the 'fixed wiring' (your 'point'). My daughter has such an arrangement in at least one room - probably done because the most convenient (and accessible) place to connect to the lighting circuit is roughly that far away.

In this case, of course, it's the Class 2 'transformer' which is the issue, not the (ELV) light fitting.

Kind Regards, John
 
I can only refer you to 412.2.3.2.

It seems very simple to me. You are free to ignore it, should you wish.
 
I can only refer you to 412.2.3.2.
Interesting. I didn't realise it was 'duplicated', and wonder why they bothered about that one, which relates only to circuits supplying Class II equipment. The one I'm familiar with is (the last paragraph of) 411.3.1.1, which says exactly the same but for any circuit (hence including those mentioned in 'your' one)!
It seems very simple to me. You are free to ignore it, should you wish.
You may regard it as simple, but it's what we've been discussing. You presumably disagree, but my inclination is to regard all of the cabling of a circuit from the CU/DB up to where it enters an item of "fixed equipment' as being 'fixed wiring' - which (in view of the Part II definition of a 'point') would lead me to a different conclusion from yours.

If, for some reason, the (3-core) supply cable from the switched lighting circuit was, say, 30 cm too short to reach into a Class II item and I therefore extended it with a JB and short length of cable, I presume you would agree that that extra bit of cable was still part of the 'fixed wiring', and therefore that it had to include a CPC. It just seems a little odd to me that if that 'short extra bit of cable' was installed in the factory, it ceases to be 'fixed wiring' and therefore arguably does not need to have a CPC.

I have no desire to ignore either those regs and, indeed, there are very few situations in which one has any realistic opportunity to ignore them. I merely asked whether it was strictly compliant to have a situation in which the cable entering a Class II item had no CPC. As I keep saying, I'm trying to learn, not argue.

Kind Regards, John
 
You may regard it as simple, but it's what we've been discussing. You presumably disagree, but my inclination is to regard all of the cabling of a circuit from the CU/DB up to where it enters an item of "fixed equipment' as being 'fixed wiring' - which (in view of the Part II definition of a 'point') would lead me to a different conclusion from yours.
...but it's not; flex of an appliance is not fixed wiring.

If, for some reason, the (3-core) supply cable from the switched lighting circuit was, say, 30 cm too short to reach into a Class II item and I therefore extended it with a JB and short length of cable, I presume you would agree that that extra bit of cable was still part of the 'fixed wiring', and therefore that it had to include a CPC.
If you regard it as fixed wiring, whether it is or not, then you could also extend the CPC.
You could use cable that was 30cm. longer or put the juction box on the other end.

It just seems a little odd to me that if that 'short extra bit of cable' was installed in the factory, it ceases to be 'fixed wiring' and therefore arguably does not need to have a CPC.
...except that it is not going to be fixed wiring, is it?
It can be disconnected and taken away with the lamp.
I know you could do the same with your 30cm. extension but why would you?
The one in question does not appear to be able to be removed from the lamp.

I have no desire to ignore either those regs and, indeed, there are very few situations in which one has any realistic opportunity to ignore them. I merely asked whether it was strictly compliant to have a situation in which the cable entering a Class II item had no CPC.
It obviously is because no class 2 items that come with a flex will have a CPC.
 

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