Boiler flue position nuisance (yes that one again...)

[riggers386]

I'm posting this in the hope that someone (and preferably a Gas Safe registered/retired installer) can throw some light on.

It's the usual 'My neighbour has installed a condensing boiler and the fumes from the flue are entering my house...' chestnut, I know - but there is a complication: the installation wasn't to the regs in force at the time of installation, and isn't now. What I would like some advice on, is - can I use the fact that the installation wasn't to regs as an argument that the situation is unsafe, if I take the matter up with the Local Gov Ombudsman? The Environmental Health Department have been a total waste of time.

Here is the situation:

1) The terminal is less than 300mm from the boundary.

2) It is less than 150mm from (the neighbour's ) vertical soil pipe (fanned flue.)

Whenever the wind is from the West (normal) and the boiler is operating, we can't open the window without fumes (and yes - I know it's only H20 + CO2 - whilst it's working efficiently) entering our kitchen.

The main question is - will the proximity of the soil pipe affect the efficiency of the combustion - i.e. with the air intake being so close to the soil pipe? If not - why the regulation stipulating that minimum distance in the first place?

The boiler is a Glowworm Ultracom HXi and they do allow the minimum air intake - adjacent obstruction distance to be reduced to 25mm - if a plume management kit is used, so that the combustion products are discharged well away from the air intake. What I'm trying to achieve is to get my neighbour to install a plume management kit (about £50 plus fitting, for this boiler,) which he's refusing to do. It was installed on a grant (because he's permanently on benefits,) and refused to pay for one at the time of installation. It's over two years ago, so Building Control won't act.

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[Dan Robinson]

Don't why people can't post decent pictures/links:

View media item 74986
View media item 74987

 

[Dan Robinson]

25mm from drain pipes.

300mm from boundary alongside the boiler.

300mm from opening or window.

Try Gas Safe - after that you're screwed.

 

[riggers386]

"Don't why people can't post decent pictures/links:"

Well thank you for pointing that out - but the site doesn't show how to, and since this is my first post I have no experience.

Try it - click 'help' and click on the advice on how to include a picture.

If you can find it.

Now - the question I actually asked - will the proximity of the soil pipe affect the efficiency of combustion - and if not, what is the reason for the 150mm (fanned flue ) distance given in Part J ?

 

[ianmcd]

You can not discharge a flue within 2.5M of a boundary line

 

[Dean744PiN5]

Just A thought but have tried asking the neighbour to have a plume management kit fitted to direct poc's away from you property. This wouldn't cost them a lot and looks more than feasible from the drawing you have provided.
Edit just saw the bottom bit of op stating neighbour won't fit 1.

 

[riggers386]

Just A thought but have tried asking the neighbour to have a plume management kit fitted to direct poc's away from you property. This wouldn't cost them a lot and looks more than feasible from the drawing you have provided.

Thanks, but as I said at the outset: that's what I want him to do, is reasonable, quite feasible, sensible and would solve the problem.

It's also what he refuses to do.

 

[riggers386]

The question I'm actually asking again:

Will the proximity of the soil pipe affect the efficiency of combustion - and if not, what is the reason for the 150mm (fanned flue ) distance given in Part J ?

 

[Dan Robinson]

You can not discharge a flue within 2.5M of a boundary line

That's facing terminals.... IIRC. The 300mm I quoted was from the destructions.

Dean - OP's neighbour is a scrounger and won't pay.

Riggers - can't unlearn stuff... but a bit of simple logical thought goes a long way.

Anyway - that soil pipe will not cause combustion problems. Manufacturer's instructions are king.

 

[ianmcd]

You can not discharge a flue within 2.5M of a boundary line

That's facing terminals.... IIRC. The 300mm I quoted was from the destructions.

Dean - OP's neighbour is a scrounger and won't pay.

Riggers - can't unlearn stuff... but a bit of simple logical thought goes a long way.

Anyway - that soil pipe will not cause combustion problems. Manufacturer's instructions are king.

yes agree the 2.5M is facing terminals, sorry didnt read the complete post

 

[riggers386]

Ok Dan - got that.

MI's only overrule Part J (25mm) in their case, where a plume management kit is fitted - otherwise it's 150mm. (I'd post a link to the PDF but mightn't do it right...)

So what is the reason for the 150mm distance given in Part J? There must be one...

 

[Dan Robinson]

In actual fact the manual only gives the distance to vertical pipes.

My suggestion would be to contact Glow-worm tomorrow unless one of the Bunnymen will pop in and give some GS information.

 

[riggers386]

It is a vertical pipe - but as you can see, the branch is also close, but fair enough - failing that, as you say, phoning Glow Worm might be the best bet.

Now I know why gas fitters are always saying flueing is a nightmare...

 

[Dan Robinson]

Flueing and gas pipe sizing is a royal PITA because no one appreciates the nuances - nor the costs in doing things properly.

People like you get shat on as well as the installer - even if they tried to do it properly in the first place.

"Its been fine fro 20 years" is often the moan from the bill payer.

Plume management kits are not allowed to be used to get around a breach in the rules. They are there to make an unfortunate sequence of events more tolerable....

i.e.,, when the basic rules have been followed, yet the plume still causes a nuisance.

Although I suspect/hope that this might get relaxed soon.

The industry considers the air intake of the flue as part of the terminal as much as the exhaust section of the flue.

 

[riggers386]

I fully sympathise with the installer in this case; it's the neighbour who is a PITA: I was plastering the back door reveal the day the fitter was talking to him and heard him say "...your neighbour might well complain, if I don't fit one..." I'm assuming he meant a PMK, since I can't think of anything else he'd be referring to. It's my guess the neighbour deliberately told him not to, in order to **** us off. Not sure if the grant he'd got (he didn't pay for it) would have covered the PMK - pretty sure if it'd been free, he'd have asked for half a dozen.

It all stems from a right of way he tried to claim over my rear garden, a few years ago (and lost.) Since then, he's gone out of his way to be an @sshole (doesn't have to go that far, actually.)

I should have complained at the time, but things had quietened down and I didn't want to stir things up again - the flue is only 140mm from the boundary and building control would have made him move it (as you say, the PMK can't be used to achieve compliance when it wouldn't, otherwise - though I'd be perfectly happy to settle for it.)

The only time we can open our kitchen window is when he's away - usually for six weeks over Christmas, in Egypt, Malta, the Canaries etc... (and yes - I did say he's on benefits ...)