Boiler flue position nuisance (yes that one again...)

[MJGas]

I fully sympathise with the installer in this case; it's the neighbour who is a PITA: I was plastering the back door reveal the day the fitter was talking to him and heard him say "...your neighbour might well complain, if I don't fit one..." I'm assuming he meant a PMK, since I can't think of anything else he'd be referring to. It's my guess the neighbour deliberately told him not to, in order to p**s us off. Not sure if the grant he'd got (he didn't pay for it) would have covered the PMK - pretty sure if it'd been free, he'd have asked for half a dozen.

It all stems from a right of way he tried to claim over my rear garden, a few years ago (and lost.) Since then, he's gone out of his way to be an @sshole (doesn't have to go that far, actually.)

I should have complained at the time, but things had quietened down and I didn't want to stir things up again - the flue is only 140mm from the boundary and building control would have made him move it (as you say, the PMK can't be used to achieve compliance when it wouldn't, otherwise - though I'd be perfectly happy to settle for it.)

The only time we can open our kitchen window is when he's away - usually for six weeks over Christmas, in Egypt, Malta, the Canaries etc... (and yes - I did say he's on benefits ...)

The fact is if its within 300mm of the boundary, It's the installer that is wrong not your neighbour.

 

[riggers386]

I know - but as I say, building control won't act: it's over two years since it was fitted.

 

[Steelmasons]

Boiler has been installed as per manufactures instructions HOWEVER.....If you think for any reason that products of combustion are entering your property from a neighbouring dwelling then have an "atmosphere sampling" test carried out (@ your expense) , simple solution would be to fit a CO alarm within the room you detect to be an issue with regard to neighbouring POC infiltration into your property , should the alarm detect any issues then you may have some kind of standing/case to put forward (RIDDOR).

 

[Steelmasons]

So what is the reason for the 150mm distance given in Part J? There must be one...

Yes there is......

Manufactures will quote ......these clearances may be reduced to 25mm without affecting the performance of the boiler. In order to ensure condense plume does not effect adjacent surfaces then it may be necessary to extend flue terminal.

Nothing whatsoever regarding the use of plume management kits although variable terminal kits are a better option with regard to termination flexibility. (dependant upon manufacturer )

You will also find that termination positions will differ for some appliances dependant upon input rating although manufactures instructions will ALWAYS overule industry standards/regulations.

 

[riggers386]

Boiler has been installed as per manufactures instructions HOWEVER.....If you think for any reason that products of combustion are entering your property from a neighbouring dwelling then have an "atmosphere sampling" test carried out (@ your expense) , simple solution would be to fit a CO alarm within the room you detect to be an issue with regard to neighbouring POC infiltration into your property , should the alarm detect any issues then you may have some kind of standing/case to put forward (RIDDOR).

Well I do sort of suspect that POC might just be entering my kitchen....

These were taken about a month ago, when the wind was blowing directly from the West...

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• riggers386
• 24 Mar 2014
• 1

Untitled

• riggers386
• 24 Mar 2014
• 1

 

[Dan Robinson]

Have you contacted Gas Safe yet?

 

[Corgigrouch]

Wait 'till hes on his hollies and unload a full can of PU foam into his flue.....In the dark of course...

 

[riggers386]

Have you contacted Gas Safe yet?

I've emailed Glowworm - no reply, so I'll ring tomorrow.

From what I hear, Gas Safe are a waste of time - Environmental Health simply said that if the flue terminal isn't correctly sited, all Gas Safe can do is offer (the neighbour - not me!) a free safety check - but if he refuses, they can do nothing.

I have to say this: I think the whole sorry situation needs a bloody good shake -up. It has been suggested that I install a CO detector (at my own cost) well it may sound a bit petulant, I know - but why the hell should I have to? And if the alarm sounds ? I shut my window ?(Obviously I would - but again - why the hell should I have to?)

I can't think of another area of law where a neighbour can infringe your ability to enjoy the facilities of your own house and basically be allowed to do the hell what he wants, as long as he's gotten away with it for over two years. It stinks.

 

[riggers386]

Wait 'till hes on his hollies and unload a full can of PU foam into his flue.....In the dark of course...

Tempting, yes, but it'd be a fairly easily provable criminal damage indictment; far worse possibly, and the little sh*t's not worth it.

 

[TCCHeating]

From looking at those 2 pictures of the flue gases entering through the window it would be hard for anyone to dispute that you do have a genuine cause for concern. (However it seems the installer has done his duty in following the mi's). So he cannot be blamed. As dan says your next port of call should be gas safe. Goid luck with it all.

 

[riggers386]

Anyway, I'll keep on at Glowworm, then try Gas Safe, assuming their M.I's don't overrule regs (but can't see how the 300mm to boundary reg could really be overruled.)

If I get nowhere, I'll refer the whole thing to the Local Government Ombudsman, on the grounds that Environmental Health haven't discharged their duty in regard to my complaint properly - but I don't hold out much hope: I have a sneaking suspicion that since the compulsory introduction of condensing boilers - and the resulting avalanche of complaints similar to mine - a quiet word has gone out to all local government Environmental Health depts. to throw the complaints out. Those two photographs are the same ones I sent to the Environment Health Dept., who have decided it's not a problem. So my belief is that if that's the case, the Ombudsman will simply rubber stamp their decision.

There's always the choice of bringing a case before the magistrates, under section 82 of the EPA., but once again I'll have to pay; whereas he'll get legal aid because he's on bloody benefits. Still, I suppose he has his two cars to run and six weeks holiday to pay for - wouldn't want to infringe his rights...

 

[riggers386]

Right, Glowworm have got back to me: the distance allowable from a soil pipe is 25mm, as some have pointed out (thanks.) What isn't clear from the M.I. is that it applies with or without a PMK; it simply states "The minimum siting dimensions for the terminal positions,
A, B, C stated in the diagram, can be applied when a plume
management kit is fitted...' It then details windows, air bricks etc., but doesn't mention vertical pipes - so logical thinking people would assume that Part J of building regs are not affected; but they are in fact overruled.

So - all I have to go on is the 140mm the terminal is from the boundary, and GSIU regulation 27(5) (guidance notes 257 and 258.)

I'll keep you all updated...

 

[Agile]

It is generally considered that a flue should not discharge WITHIN 2.5m of a boundary!

I cannot interpret the pictures as none seem to show the flue, the boundary and your window. That's in one picture.

The EHO should be upholding your complaint.

Scroungers a always a problem and that's why I hate them!

 

[riggers386]

It is generally considered that a flue should not discharge WITHIN 2.5m of a boundary!

I cannot interpret the pictures as none seem to show the flue, the boundary and your window. That's in one picture.

The EHO should be upholding your complaint.

Scroungers a always a problem and that's why I hate them!

Thanks, but it's parallel to the boundary, not facing it, so 300mm in this case (I think.)

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[Agile]

Right then in that case the edge of the flue should be 300 mm.

That's usually taken to be the MIDDLE of a party wall between properties.

BUT in addition to the statutory distances a flue also has to be fitted in a location "where it does not cause any nuisance".

It is a pity that so much time has gone by since it was installed.

There are a lot of things you could do legally. Applying for an injunction to prevent him using the boiler until a plume management kit has been fitted for example.

But they all cost you money as you cannot make anyone on benefits pay anything. That's why they can behave so badly!

I also take the view that the installer could reasonably have forseen that it was going to cause a nuisance! So in my view is guilty. Even more so because he has a duty of care towards the occupant/owner of the property because he is the gas expert at the installation.

People forget that they can end up having to pay thousands for oversights like this.

As an aside:

A client engaged builders to renovate his terraced house in Kensington. He served a party wall notice on the neighbour.

His builder started work a day before the notice period expired.

The neighbour was an out of work barrister and took him to court claiming damages. His legal costs alone were £3500 for the pre court discussion. I don't know what the final outcome was but I am sure it was expensive for him.

Tony