Builder overcharging?

[Erica123]

If you agree a price that has been quoted and that work has been done to a satisfactory standard, then you have not been overcharged, if the work takes ten minutes or ten days this is not a factor on the price quoted!

I don't agree. If I'm quoted a price, I assume that this price not only reflects the completed job but also the amount of work that's gone into it. If a job can be easily completed in two hours, then the customer shouldn't be charged as if it was for 5 hours.

I think you may have had a bad experience, which has scarred you and given you a heavily biased opinion against tradesmen in general.
I suggest in future you research your tradesmen well, then make an informed decision based on that research, then agree a price and the quality expected based on that price, then ask for contracts to be exchanged.

Anyone who deals with workmen, will have good and bad experience, and you learn not to be too trusting. This has nothing to do with "scars".

If asked I am always willing to show quality of my work, offer genuine testimonies of my work and if you want to look at the certificates/quals I have attained over the years, I have a folder full, that is available.
I am also a member of trade organisations, where I can be checked up and there are compliant procedures that can be made against me, if they are required.

If all workmen were that consciencious, people wouldn't have any problems with them.

Don't get it into your head that this is all one way traffic, there are many despicable customer out there, that when they require work to be done there objectives are on completion not to pay or not pay in full. Unfortunately BCC, ITV, CH4, CH5 etc.. Don't seem to think this would make good TV viewing.....

If a contract has been signed and the work's been done properly, then I can't see how a customer can renegotiate the price or refuse to pay. The real problem seems to be that contracts are NOT made, which means that the tradesman can cash in the money without declaring it. But on the other hand, he has a problem when the customer doesn't pay up.

 

[NS215]

2. Erica (ureka) is just an internet troll who revels on all your replies, IGNORE!!

Can't believe people are still replying to this troll, no matter what you write they WILL find an argument

8 pages for a post where a guy quotes £200 for a job, does the job to a quality the customer is happy with, then invoices the customer for £200, the original poster should have had two replies at the most, saying pay the guy

 

[gregers]

any chance of having all your details erica?

so that i can ignore you when youve run out of tradesman in your area.

 

[NS215]

jeez when will people learn to stop feeding the fire ????

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I don't agree. If I'm quoted a price, I assume that this price not only reflects the completed job but also the amount of work that's gone into it. If a job can be easily completed in two hours, then the customer shouldn't be charged as if it was for 5 hours.

I am all for a fair days pay for a fair days work.
I won't rip the client off, but I also don't expect the client to rip me off either. The problem is sometimes it is difficult to access the work that may be required to complete the work to a safe and satisfactory state.
I personally do a lot of electrical fault finding and diagnosis, it is impossible for me to quote on such work other than offer an hourly/day rate. i cannot assume I am going to identify the fault within the first ten minute or the next ten hours. then once I have found the fault, I can then quote for the remedial work needed to resolve the problem.
It is often possible that I can find and repair the fault within the first 20 minutes of entering the property, for that expect to be paid fairly and not for twenty minutes of work. As I cannot plan another job for that day, as I do not know if I am going to have time to go elsewhere. So it maybe that for the twenty minutes I spend in a property I want £50-£70 plus any materials used. i shouldn't be dragged across the coals and accused of overcharging because my knowledge and experience, using my expensive calibrated test equipment, has allowed me to resolve a problem earlier than expected, and the client full fridge freezer of prime meat is no longer thawing out and the can warm their hands and dry their smalls as the heating is know on and they can pack away the candles.
The problem is you to a job have it resolved in short period of time reducing the inconvenience that the problem has caused to the client and they seem to think the tradesman is overcharging them and would be much happier if you stuck around awhile!

Anyone who deals with workmen, will have good and bad experience, and you learn not to be too trusting. This has nothing to do with "scars".

It also works the other way! You can just never tell but at least I can prove my reliability, knowledge I have and quality of work, it is rarely the customer can prove their credentials to the tradesman

If all workmen were that consciencious, people wouldn't have any problems with them.

That would only be true if all customers were also as conscientious and realized it's just not about turning up in the van with tool bag in hand.

If a contract has been signed and the work's been done properly, then I can't see how a customer can renegotiate the price or refuse to pay.

They do!

The real problem seems to be that contracts are NOT made, which means that the tradesman can cash in the money without declaring it.

I am not saying that there are not tradesmen out there, that will take advantage in such away, but you cannot assume that most are like that, because they are not, I have lost money and contracts, due to bad payers, who protects me?

But on the other hand, he has a problem when the customer doesn't pay up.

and this problem is not uncommon!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I don't agree. If I'm quoted a price, I assume that this price not only reflects the completed job but also the amount of work that's gone into it. If a job can be easily completed in two hours, then the customer shouldn't be charged as if it was for 5 hours.

I am all for a fair days pay for a fair days work.
I won't rip the client off, but I also don't expect the client to rip me off either. The problem is sometimes it is difficult to access the work that may be required to complete the work to a safe and satisfactory state.
I personally do a lot of electrical fault finding and diagnosis, it is impossible for me to quote on such work other than offer an hourly/day rate. I cannot assume I am going to identify the fault within the first ten minute or the next ten hours. then once I have found the fault, I can then quote for the remedial work needed to resolve the problem.
It is often possible that I can find and repair the fault within the first 20 minutes of entering the property, for that I expect to be paid fairly and not for twenty minutes of work. As I cannot plan another job for that day, as I do not know if I am going to have time to go elsewhere. So it maybe that for the twenty minutes I spend in a property I want £50-£70 plus any materials used. I shouldn't be dragged across the coals and accused of overcharging because my knowledge and experience, using my expensive calibrated test equipment, has allowed me to resolve a problem earlier than expected, and the client's full fridge freezer of prime cut meat is no longer thawing out, and they can warm their hands and dry their smalls as the heating is know on and they can pack away the candles.
The problem is you go to a job, have it resolved in short period of time, reducing the inconvenience that the problem has caused to the client and they seem to think the tradesman is overcharging them and would be much happier if you stuck around awhile!

Anyone who deals with workmen, will have good and bad experience, and you learn not to be too trusting. This has nothing to do with "scars".

It also works the other way! You can just never tell but at least I can prove my reliability, knowledge I have and quality of work, it is rarely the customer can prove their credentials to the tradesman

If all workmen were that consciencious, people wouldn't have any problems with them.

That would only be true if all customers were also as conscientious and realized it's just not about turning up in the van with tool bag in hand.

If a contract has been signed and the work's been done properly, then I can't see how a customer can renegotiate the price or refuse to pay.

They do!

The real problem seems to be that contracts are NOT made, which means that the tradesman can cash in the money without declaring it.

I am not saying that there are not tradesmen out there that will take advantage in such away, but you cannot assume that most are like that, because they are not. I have lost money and contracts, due to bad payers, who protects me? If I take an on the spot decision and decide the cable in that wall belongs to me and I am having back, the police get called and I end up in front of a desk sergeant and maybe followed up by a magistrate reprimanding me! All I wanted to do your honour, was do a good job get paid for it, so I can pay my bills!

But on the other hand, he has a problem when the customer doesn't pay up.

and this problem is not uncommon!

 

[noseall]

If you agree a price that has been quoted and that work has been done to a satisfactory standard, then you have not been overcharged, if the work takes ten minutes or ten days this is not a factor on the price quoted!

I don't agree. If I'm quoted a price, I assume that this price not only reflects the completed job but also the amount of work that's gone into it. If a job can be easily completed in two hours, then the customer shouldn't be charged as if it was for 5 hours.

I know Ureka 321 is a troll but you have to laugh at this paragraph and where Ureka has gone horribly wrong.

How can a price for a proposed job, i.e. one that has not even started yet, "reflect the work that has gone into it"?

Ureka is a troll and one that can not handle basic grammar, does not understand pricing and is bereft of any knowledge towards simple physics.

As said, stop feeding the troll!

 

[cajar]

It means when you're working for Erica123 you quote for exactly what you can see, and if you discover problems when you begin you just continue working till your agreed hours are up then demand full payment and leave the site as it is.

 

[Erica123]

How can a price for a proposed job, i.e. one that has not even started yet, "reflect the work that has gone into it"?

It's the only thing that makes sense. If a tradesman wants to make sure that he doesn't undercharge a customer, he'll have to work out how many hours he'll need for a job BEFORE he starts the job. It's based in the first place on TIME, then factors such as required materials, skills etc.

 

[s60tsy]

what about honouring a guarantee, proper tradesmen dont charge by the hour.

 

[Erica123]

I personally do a lot of electrical fault finding and diagnosis, it is impossible for me to quote on such work other than offer an hourly/day rate. I cannot assume I am going to identify the fault within the first ten minute or the next ten hours. then once I have found the fault, I can then quote for the remedial work needed to resolve the problem.
It is often possible that I can find and repair the fault within the first 20 minutes of entering the property, for that I expect to be paid fairly and not for twenty minutes of work. As I cannot plan another job for that day, as I do not know if I am going to have time to go elsewhere. So it maybe that for the twenty minutes I spend in a property I want £50-£70 plus any materials used.

This work is different from the types of jobs that were discussed earlier in this thread. You're doing diagnostic work, so as a customer I know that I'll have to pay a minimal charge for that service even if it takes only a couple of minutes to find the fault. In an emergency situation like you described it, the customer is just glad when the problem is solved, whilst hours of work play a lesser role.

Apart from that, I don't believe that as a tradesman you're powerless when a customer signs a contract and then refuses to pay. You can take non-paying customers to court.

 

[Erica123]

8 pages for a post where a guy quotes £200 for a job, does the job to a quality the customer is happy with, then invoices the customer for £200, the original poster should have had two replies at the most, saying pay the guy

The workman that Pippy complained about had made the job sound much more comprehensive and time consuming than it really was. He was misleading and overcharging the customer. The itemised invoice that he sent to the customer consisted of fictional figures. Typical dishonest conman behaviour. Worse than than, many people in this forum supported this kind of practice. What does that say about tradesmen in general?

 

[Whitespirit66]

YAWN!!

 

[limerockconstruction]

Erica, out of interest, what do you do for a living?

 

[jeff the gasman]

Actually, we have found many of the replies on here quite upsetting. We are just normal, friendly folk and happy to pay for work where the costs seem reasonable and justified. We always supply workmen with ample cups of tea and quality chocolate biscuits, even a sandwich for lunch if they have nothing with them.

My mum did not seek further estimates because the price seemed reasonable for the work that needed doing (or rather for the work that the builder told her needed doing). As I have said above, once the job was completed, we could see that it was much less than the builder had told us it was going to be. Had he told us what he was actually going to do, we would not have accepted his quote, we would have considered it to be too expensive. He didn't give us that option because he led us to believe it was a bigger job and one that was worth £200.

If it's had rained for the whole day and he couldn't do the job until the following day and it then took him 3 hours would you still feel robbed?

We can appreciate that builders don't always know what a job is going to entail until they start the work. This was a fairly simple job though - a few cracks in a low garden wall. The guy has been working in the business for over 30 years so he must have had a fairly good idea about what was involved.

We wouldn't complain if Tesco were charging more for a can of baked beans than Sainsbury, but we would complain if we got home and found that one of the cans was only half full. We paid for a full can because that was what we were led to believe we would get. This guy put less beans in the can, but still wants the same amount of money. It just doesn't seem fair, no matter what you lot on here seem to think.