building control nightmare

[brian7evan]

Hi, hoping someone can help, I got my planning permition last year to build an extension onto my two story detached house, due to the openings in the gable wall i had to get a structural engineers report before BC would grant me a building warrant. This has taken 1 year so far, in february 07, looking for a structual engineers report was harder than i imagined as three companies did not want to know and the other companies i contacted made me wait three to six weeks for a reply and hit me with quotes ranging from £900 to £1950 plus vat. None of the available companies could start work on the report for upto three to four months, so i contacted another company in Liverpool who where able to offer me an SER in 4 weeks "GREAT". Problem when submitting this report, the South Lanarkshire Building control did not like that i used a company from England so they submitted my SER to one of there own surveyors to check, they have sinse got back to me with more calculation demands for foundation, joists, roof trusses etc which my Engineer gladly completed and forwarded onto my BC officer. Now they have come back to my again saying they will need a soil sample test and the 4mtr opening in the gable wall is to wide as the maximum opening for a two story extension is 3 mtrs, they never mentioned that when they passed my plans?

any idears whats going on here guys or gals?
Cheers, Brian





South Lanarkshire, Scotland

 

[Shytalkz]

Soup Dragon SEs who are registered can self-certify their own work; south of the border, that's yet to come in, so I would assume that that was the reason that his work was checked by someone else.

Someone will have to make a decision as to the adequacy of the soils in accepting foundation loadings, so that's why the LA want that info.

Planning is an approval for what you want to build; the warrant is an approval for how you're going to build it.

 

[brian7evan]

I understand the reasons for what BC ask for but i don't understand how they go about it. I am an electrician, i come from a family of builders and wanted to have my extension built by people i know of mainly who are family, as quotes for a two story extension from various local builders came in at £42,000 to £58,000 my budget would only strech to £30,000.
Now i have found that building control offer no guidance to people like myself as to a list of requirements needed to meet there standards.
BC ask me for calculations for steel beams then on receipt they ask me for calculation for all lintels then on receipt they ask me for calculations for floor joists, foundations and wall stability and on receipt Yes you guessed after approving all this they say the 4.2mtr opening in the gable wall can only be 3mtrs max!!! Plus you best get a soil sample done for your foundations. Now ber in mind this is the same BC officer who sent somone out to check my foundations and gave me the go to lay the strip founds and build out of the ground then gave me the go to build upto first floor as long as i stop before any steel beams are put in place.


see: www.satscene.com/my_house_extension.htm

 

[Shytalkz]

Yes, they could have dealt with it in a better manner, like asking for all the info they needed in one hit. Your frustration is fully understood!

 

[brian7evan]

Now it seems we have come to the real reason behind building control not passing my structural engineers report i had done by an English company!

I took all my structural calculations to a scottish structural engineer who told me he could not find any faults in the English report and the British standed Max 3 mtr opening in a gable wall was not true as long as you have structural calculations to support a wider opening. On calling my BC officer we learnt that the council's sructural surveyor did not like the idear of the English SER and if the Scottish structural engineer was willing to take the report and put his name to it then he would not ask anymore question and would issue the building warrent! So this Council serveyor is costing me possible another £600 to £700 for my report to be cross referenced by a Scottish Structural Engineer, surley this guy cant do that!

 

[noseall]

So this Council serveyor is costing me possible another £600 to £700 for my report to be cross referenced by a Scottish Structural Engineer, surley this guy cant do that!

aaah, the old enemy across the border eh!

some people will never forget Culloden.

 

[Shytalkz]

That's not the way it's done afaiaa. A chartered SE up there sits the same exams and does the same training to be registered F/MIStructE with the same UK body; the CEng qualification is also a UK-wide one.

The only difference up there is that Scotland has introduced a system for qualified engineers, by virtue of CPD, can be registered with the LAs to self-check and certify his own work. As usual, we in the rest of the UK lag well behind, something to do with PII issues, or so they say. I've not heard of it having to go to another independent, scottish registered engineer for checking for another fee, that should be paid for out of your warrant fee.

Go over him to the head honcho and take it up with him, I think he's acting well outside his remit. I'd be extremely interested to learn of the outcome as well, as I have two ongoing jobs up there atm.

Soup dragons oi vay...

 

[brian7evan]

Will keep you informed but the word is that more and more Scottish Structural Engineers are refusing to self certify there work anymore and the whole thing is in danger of reverting back to the way it was!
The pressent structural engineer acting for me now has refused building control an SER Certificate but they will still exept his word because they have worked with him before.

 

[Shytalkz]

Interesting, wonder what's caused the backlash? Can only be something to do with exposure to risk and someone having taken on additional liability by self-certifying through some legal "reasoning".

Effectively, such a self-cert system is informally in place, certainly over here: as long as the LAs know you, it's on company paper and it's not a major structure, it will not normally even get checked by anyone, just goes into their system. Personally, that suits me fine: no arguing with other engineers over design methodology and, if we want to be considered as professionals and expect remuneration commensurate with that, then we have to take responsibility for our own design and get an independent check ourselves if we just want another pov.

If it comes to a claim, in any event, then liability - if proven - attaches to the company that employs the engineer and not to the LA or their in-house or out-sourced checking engineer.