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Hi all,
I've read forum posts on DIYnot for a good few years now, searching usually finds the answers I've wanted so far but I'm after a bit of advice on how to proceed with a bigger job now really. I know there will be some opinions based on my diy approach but I'm happy to listen to all to get some advice.
I've got a 4 bedroom house (1980's) that has been plumbed in mostly 8mm microbore acorn piping for the central heating. There's an Ideal Elan boiler in the kitchen which I believe was installed when the house was new. I took over the house just over a year or so ago. Whilst we haven't any major issues with the heating so far, the boiler has served its time we think and we are keen to replace it, the hot water cylinder and the open vented central heating system for a combi boiler and pressurised system.
I've had a couple of plumbers come to quote on replacing the whole lot and gotten quotes back. Now whilst I've no major issue paying somebody to replace the boiler and pay for a decent boiler, I'm a little hesitant to pay somebody to replace the pipework and at the prices quoted. Before anyone suggests I'm being tight, I know this and I appreciate it but I'm also fairly logical and pretty good with diy (yes it doesnt make me an expert). I do have other reasons for trying to do this as economically as possible but I'll not get into that on here. I'm planning to be in the house for at least another 10-20 years so knowing what is where and how it went in is important to me, but having a sound setup is also important. In my previous experience, getting a trade person in doesn't always deliver that.
Anyway, to explain, the Boiler is located in the kitchen. The boiler output goes upwards from the top of the boiler into the ceiling of the kitchen. It runs between the ceiling of the kitchen and the tiled floor of the bathroom to the landing in a flow and return 22mm or 3/4" pipes. From here there are manifolds going out to the 8mm microbore acorn piping in the hall landing upstairs. These pipes feed and return from the 8 radiators in the house. I've had the floor up and taken pictures and its quite clear where the pipes go from there.
Now, after speaking to a few plumbers, because the existing pipework goes downstairs between the plasterboard and brick work and a few other places, trying to repipe in copper would either mean a huge amount of ripping and costs or its not really possible. Another plumber had suggested MLCP but again, between pre-forming bends before it goes in, its not ideal either, so I'm pretty resound to having to use plastic.
Based on having to use plastic and having already figured out that all the runs can be done in 15mm plastic pipe direct to the radiators, I started to wonder how difficult this would be. In simple, non-professional mind, the hardest will be running the plastic pipes behind the plasterboard and through the joists etc. Actually connecting to the radiators already in place, I do not think will be a major feat of plumbing, yes it'll require new valves on each radiator, but as I'm planning to get TRV's for all radiators, this needs to be done anyway. The plumbers I spoke to preferred to have plasterboard open more to have easier access and reduce my costs, but add to the additional work I'd have after to patch up. My logic being, if its my own time, I can spend an extra hour fishing pipe through a wall to save £50 and drag my son into it for experience.
My questions are, from the experienced plumbers and diyers out there, would you advise against taking on this kind of work. My thoughts were to re-plumb the central heating back to the flow and return pipes from the existing boiler (the ones in the hall landing, not next to the boiler!), then get a plumber in post this work, to fit the new boiler. I realise they will not guarantee the pipework, just like they wouldn't if I were just getting a new boiler without fitting the piping but can anyone suggest any major downfalls I should be aware of? Possibly the difference in pipe size and the existing pump spring to mind, but would this just mean slower to heat radiators until the new boiler is fitted or new pump.
Does anyone have any thoughts or comments? Also as I would be dropping plastic piping down behind the plasterboard to the radiators, I was trying to avoid the issue of the plastic pipes kinking with the setup show in this photo
Pipe comes down the wall in the centre of the rad, comes out of the wall in the middle of the rad through a radiator outlet plate and gradually curves to the 90degree compression fitting attached to the TRV. The other end of the plastic piping would be directly attached to a manifold with again a compression fitting. I've worked a little with compression fittings before and outdoor water pipes so think I'm best to use them here. I think its the simplest solution with only the 90degree fitting being the extra joint and potential flow restriction.
Before my post goes rambling on, anyone any thoughts or questions?
Thanks
Paddy
I've read forum posts on DIYnot for a good few years now, searching usually finds the answers I've wanted so far but I'm after a bit of advice on how to proceed with a bigger job now really. I know there will be some opinions based on my diy approach but I'm happy to listen to all to get some advice.
I've got a 4 bedroom house (1980's) that has been plumbed in mostly 8mm microbore acorn piping for the central heating. There's an Ideal Elan boiler in the kitchen which I believe was installed when the house was new. I took over the house just over a year or so ago. Whilst we haven't any major issues with the heating so far, the boiler has served its time we think and we are keen to replace it, the hot water cylinder and the open vented central heating system for a combi boiler and pressurised system.
I've had a couple of plumbers come to quote on replacing the whole lot and gotten quotes back. Now whilst I've no major issue paying somebody to replace the boiler and pay for a decent boiler, I'm a little hesitant to pay somebody to replace the pipework and at the prices quoted. Before anyone suggests I'm being tight, I know this and I appreciate it but I'm also fairly logical and pretty good with diy (yes it doesnt make me an expert). I do have other reasons for trying to do this as economically as possible but I'll not get into that on here. I'm planning to be in the house for at least another 10-20 years so knowing what is where and how it went in is important to me, but having a sound setup is also important. In my previous experience, getting a trade person in doesn't always deliver that.
Anyway, to explain, the Boiler is located in the kitchen. The boiler output goes upwards from the top of the boiler into the ceiling of the kitchen. It runs between the ceiling of the kitchen and the tiled floor of the bathroom to the landing in a flow and return 22mm or 3/4" pipes. From here there are manifolds going out to the 8mm microbore acorn piping in the hall landing upstairs. These pipes feed and return from the 8 radiators in the house. I've had the floor up and taken pictures and its quite clear where the pipes go from there.
Now, after speaking to a few plumbers, because the existing pipework goes downstairs between the plasterboard and brick work and a few other places, trying to repipe in copper would either mean a huge amount of ripping and costs or its not really possible. Another plumber had suggested MLCP but again, between pre-forming bends before it goes in, its not ideal either, so I'm pretty resound to having to use plastic.
Based on having to use plastic and having already figured out that all the runs can be done in 15mm plastic pipe direct to the radiators, I started to wonder how difficult this would be. In simple, non-professional mind, the hardest will be running the plastic pipes behind the plasterboard and through the joists etc. Actually connecting to the radiators already in place, I do not think will be a major feat of plumbing, yes it'll require new valves on each radiator, but as I'm planning to get TRV's for all radiators, this needs to be done anyway. The plumbers I spoke to preferred to have plasterboard open more to have easier access and reduce my costs, but add to the additional work I'd have after to patch up. My logic being, if its my own time, I can spend an extra hour fishing pipe through a wall to save £50 and drag my son into it for experience.
My questions are, from the experienced plumbers and diyers out there, would you advise against taking on this kind of work. My thoughts were to re-plumb the central heating back to the flow and return pipes from the existing boiler (the ones in the hall landing, not next to the boiler!), then get a plumber in post this work, to fit the new boiler. I realise they will not guarantee the pipework, just like they wouldn't if I were just getting a new boiler without fitting the piping but can anyone suggest any major downfalls I should be aware of? Possibly the difference in pipe size and the existing pump spring to mind, but would this just mean slower to heat radiators until the new boiler is fitted or new pump.
Does anyone have any thoughts or comments? Also as I would be dropping plastic piping down behind the plasterboard to the radiators, I was trying to avoid the issue of the plastic pipes kinking with the setup show in this photo
Pipe comes down the wall in the centre of the rad, comes out of the wall in the middle of the rad through a radiator outlet plate and gradually curves to the 90degree compression fitting attached to the TRV. The other end of the plastic piping would be directly attached to a manifold with again a compression fitting. I've worked a little with compression fittings before and outdoor water pipes so think I'm best to use them here. I think its the simplest solution with only the 90degree fitting being the extra joint and potential flow restriction.
Before my post goes rambling on, anyone any thoughts or questions?
Thanks
Paddy