Cooker Hood wiring...
- Thread starter Umy786
- Start date
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Please see the diagram below, showing the new proposals to ensure compliance as per the spirited discussions that have led before
Hope this satisfies all
Btw, I'd really like to know, how wiriing, embedded behind tiling and mostly behind a splashback (which will never be drilled into, does not constitute as a safe zone?
The even more puzzling thing is how can the FCU, to be mounted almost 2.5 metres above floor level, is easily accessible for easy isoloation in the potential event of the chimney becoming live or it sucking up a pan fire be acceptable? It just doesn't seem like that is a common sense approach. - Not meaning to say the advice being given is wrong or that I don't agree, I understand some of these things are out of our control, I just think it's very odd way of defining safe zones
Surely it'd be much better placed alongside a socket above the worktops ?
I do agree that it's daft that the cooker switch is behind the cooker , and if I'd have had enough give on the cable I'd have extended it up and to the side where it probably should've been in the first place
Please see the diagram below, showing the new proposals to ensure compliance as per the spirited discussions that have led before
Hope this satisfies all
Btw, I'd really like to know, how wiriing, embedded behind tiling and mostly behind a splashback (which will never be drilled into, does not constitute as a safe zone?
The even more puzzling thing is how can the FCU, to be mounted almost 2.5 metres above floor level, is easily accessible for easy isoloation in the potential event of the chimney becoming live or it sucking up a pan fire be acceptable? It just doesn't seem like that is a common sense approach. - Not meaning to say the advice being given is wrong or that I don't agree, I understand some of these things are out of our control, I just think it's very odd way of defining safe zones
Surely it'd be much better placed alongside a socket above the worktops ?
I do agree that it's daft that the cooker switch is behind the cooker , and if I'd have had enough give on the cable I'd have extended it up and to the side where it probably should've been in the first place
Because there will be no indication that it is there.
That's why, IMO, it should be controlled by the cooker switch.
The chimney will not become live. The hood will be Class 2, double insulated.
As above.
Not just daft - pointless.
Either do it properly or don't have the switch.
Put the cooker connection unit there instead.
It is most unusual to run the cooker circuit directly to a point under the worktop; are you sure it is as you think?
From which direction did the cable come to the switch?
From the point-of-view of cable routing, that would be fine. In fact, the FCU and horizontal cable from it do not need to be within 150cm of the ceiling, since the FCU creates a horizontal 'safe zone' for the cable regarless of how far it is from the ceiling.
The regulations presumably do not accept that it's inevitable that it will "never been drilled into". There are certainly plenty of holes drilled in tiles, and I've even seen some drilled in splashbacks.
The thing to understand is that 'safe zones' only relate to the welfare of buried cables. To have the only means of isolation of the hood high on the wall is clearly not very satisfactory, but that's nothing to do with safe zones. As EFLI keeps saying, the proper way is to have the hood supplied (via an FCU) by an (accessible) cooker isolator/switch.
Indeed, and that's the ideal place for it (although not so important if fed from an accessible cooker isolator). You really should have thought about cable routing before you fixed the wall units!
As EFLI has said, it serves absolutely no purpose where it is, and denies you a nearby accessible means of isolating the cooker. It really isn't very satisfactory!
Kind Regards, John
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Despite the length of time taken & the extra work entailed I would prefer to do it 'properly' but now I'm getting conflicting info
EFLI says
So put the Cooker Switch above the work top, spur off the FCU and then flex from the chimney into the FCU, but then comes all the issues with the cabling, where would that go? the only place would be up through the centre of the chimney, but as we'lve already gathered it's not a safe zone, and also if I don't have enough 6mm cable left it would mean creating a junction in the 6mm wire, and I really don't want to do that, I can imagine the issues that could arise from that!
But BAS is saying
So how would this be done?
Could someone, PLEASE amend the diagram showing how it would be safe zone & compliant by having the FCU above the worktops & how the wiring would be done to ensure the cabling is within the safe zones & without going behind the wall units
I don't believe I have enough give on the 6mm cooker cabling in order to bring it up a metre or so
The cabling comes from the left, (from the Mains RCD under the stairs and adjacent to the kitchen) along the floorboards (soon to be under tiling), behind the worktops and up into the walls (chased) and then into the cooker socket as shown on the diagram
The new wiring for cooker switch was only done recently, well after the cupboards were put in hence the reason they are behind the floor units
EFLI says
So put the Cooker Switch above the work top, spur off the FCU and then flex from the chimney into the FCU, but then comes all the issues with the cabling, where would that go? the only place would be up through the centre of the chimney, but as we'lve already gathered it's not a safe zone, and also if I don't have enough 6mm cable left it would mean creating a junction in the 6mm wire, and I really don't want to do that, I can imagine the issues that could arise from that!
But BAS is saying
So how would this be done?
Could someone, PLEASE amend the diagram showing how it would be safe zone & compliant by having the FCU above the worktops & how the wiring would be done to ensure the cabling is within the safe zones & without going behind the wall units
I don't believe I have enough give on the 6mm cooker cabling in order to bring it up a metre or so
The cabling comes from the left, (from the Mains RCD under the stairs and adjacent to the kitchen) along the floorboards (soon to be under tiling), behind the worktops and up into the walls (chased) and then into the cooker socket as shown on the diagram
The new wiring for cooker switch was only done recently, well after the cupboards were put in hence the reason they are behind the floor units
I don't think there's really any conflict. Both are really saying that there is absolutely no point in having an emergency/isolation switch hidden behind the cooker, so there's no point in having such a switch there. Unless you were prepared to do without a switch at all, that would mean moving it to a conventional location above the worktops, with a cable going from it down to an outlet plate behind the cooker.
Both Simon35 (per my diagram) and BAS have indicated ways in which it can be done. However, given the wall behind the cooker is not a safe zone (other than in the eyes of flameport), the ONLY (as far as I can see) way of getting a compliant feed up to the hood from a conventionally-placed cooker switch would involve the cable going behind wall units - which you say you don't want to take off. ... which, unless you change your view about the wall units, seems to leave no options other the 'feeding from above' approach (which leaves the only means of isolation of the hood in a daft place).
OK, but that doesn't, IMO, make it any less crazy that a cooker switch was put behind where the cooker is going. To have to have a joint in the cable so that the switch could be moved up to a sensible place would, IMO, be far less of an 'evil' than keeping the switch where it is!
Kind Regards, John
Is a JB behind a built-in oven considered accesible for maintenance?.....
OP, just take the wall units down, chop out for the cable and patch it up. They will go back up just as well as they came down....unless they have a pelmet or cornice round....
Or better still, ask the electrician who's signing this off to advise.
No less accessible than the screwed connections in a cooker outlet plate (which, after all, is just a JB by another name)!!Is a JB behind a built-in oven considered accesible for maintenance?.....
That is, indeed, the obvious solution - and a hassle that would have been avoided if thought had been given to the electrics at an appropriate point in time
Indeed.Or better still, ask the electrician who's signing this off to advise.
Kind Regards, John
I didn't mean to convey the cooker is built in, the cooker is a standard 600mm width freestanding cooker
I would be happy to move the cooker switch, put a joint in it to ensure it's in the correct place and easily accessible but I really do not wish to take the wall unit off, I am sure they will not go up as sturdy and I can't afford to take that chance
If it was a new-ish kitchen or a full refurb I'd do it immediately but it's a partial refurb so will just stick to having the cable feedling from the bedroom above and have the FCU in a stupid position
When I come to do a full kitchen refurb / extension in a couple of years (at least) I'll rip it all up and get it all done properly
Would it help anyone if I posted pics of before and after of the actual area?
Just want to also say a BIG thanks to everyone who's helped, I do appreciate the comments and suggestions
Fair enough, but that doesn't alter what I said - connection units (effectively JBs) with screwed connections are common behind both built-in and free-standing cookers/ovens, and are not a reason for concern to me. 'Built in' ones usually more-or-less 'pull out', just as do freestanding ones.
In common sense terms, that would certainly be a step in the right direction. Do I take it that you can get at the wall behind the floor unit to do that? You'll obviously have to bring another cable back down from the re-located cooker switch to a connection unit to connect to the cooker.
That's a pity. I have to say that if I regarded the fixation of the wall units as being as iffy as you suggest, I'd probably be worried about them even without taking them off!
Again a pity - when one realises that it's 'stupid' because of safety considerations. I accept that the chances of your ever wanting/needing to isolate the hood is probably very small, but ..... !
Kind Regards, John
yes as I mentioned before, I have a void of around 100-150mm behind the floor units, I will be able to pull out what's already channelled & move it across 5/600mm, then up the wall behind the units, channel in from where it becomes accessible from above the worktops & install the switch inline with the socket already there
Not sure what you mean by this as my cooker isn't 'wired' into any outlet, the 3 pin plug (and the only electrical wire coming out of the cooker) is simply plugged into this
Have I mistakenly worded it to show that the wire is directly wired into a cooker connection, if so, apologies as this is not the case
Would this affect what I've proposed then? or not...?
I agree it is a pity as I am not one for taking shortcuts or not doing it the 'proper' way if it can be helped
I understand what you mean about the cupboard being 'iffy' but it is not so unsafe as I make out, the two main raesons are that my house is a complete mess, and taking on more additional jobs, when there are 'reasonable' workarounds available as I don't have the time to factor in things such as a removal of a wall unit which I never anticipated
Channeling and re-wiriing is probbably an extra couple of hours in the day but to remove all the dishes, put them somehwhere where they won't clutter a room or fall and break, then removal of a unit (single handed) just is too much of a headache to take on than I already am
I had (incorrectly it seems) assumed that the hood would be fitted with a plug which I'd just put into the nearby worktop sockets or spur off of to create an additional one, but I am now having to add an FCU, wire that in and the rest aswell has alraedy set me back, to then remove units I won't be able to do until a weekend (if I can get some help) unfortunately is just a bridge too far for me
It saddens me to say it as I say I don't like taking the shorter 'easier' options but my situation and predicament has had to dictate me to that very outcome
Umy - basically you messed up.
You can continue to try and pretend that you didn't, or try to bodge your way around the problems you've created for yourself, or you can take a deep breath, remove the cupboard, and do it properly.
You can put a plug on it. How will that look and how did you think it would look?
You can do that.
but I am now having to add an FCU, wire that in and the rest aswell has alraedy set me back, to then remove units I won't be able to do until a weekend (if I can get some help) unfortunately is just a bridge too far for me
It saddens me to say it as I say I don't like taking the shorter 'easier' options but my situation and predicament has had to dictate me to that very outcome
Do you have Ikea wall units?
Nearly all the others have a gap up the back.
The site I'm on has kitchens from a well know kitchen supplier that may or may not begin with an H, and they have no service voids.
Very incovenient when the specs are for under cupboard (and in some, in cupboard lighting)
Very incovenient when the specs are for under cupboard (and in some, in cupboard lighting)
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