Customers being ripped off - Power flushing.

[Andygasman2010]

Problem is, flushing is often advised for the wrong reasons. Primarily it's to remove cold spots from rads. Just because there's a little dirty water in the system it doesn't mean a powerflush is justified. All to often it's a reconfigure that's needed, or blocked cold feed etc...

With some guys i'd say they should forget that powerflushing even existed, maybe that'll force them how to actually diagnose system faults!

 

[gas_man_gaz]

Must admit I have never been convinced about all this power flushing , except in the worst case scenarios , I doubt wether the customer will even notice the difference ?? boiler manus will always use it as an excuse for pretty much anything that go's wrong with there boilers .

I have installed boilers on some filthy systems , that you would not power flush in a month of sundays never had a problem , only ever changed 2 plate exc due to carp in the system & that was after 2 to 3 years !

£100+ part every 2yr doesn't sound good to me

 

[transam]

Couple of the blokes I work with get involved in breakdowns pretty much most of the time , usually electrical components , for them .

In my view if a boiler fails it is all to easy for a manufacturer to hold up a bottle of dirty water & claim there you go , thats the cause ,( looks good) but was it really ?? I have my doubts . As for effiency claims from some in the power flushing industry ? I am some what sceptical probably save more if they stripped some layers of paint off of old radiators ?

 

[transam]

Must admit I have never been convinced about all this power flushing , except in the worst case scenarios , I doubt wether the customer will even notice the difference ?? boiler manus will always use it as an excuse for pretty much anything that go's wrong with there boilers .

I have installed boilers on some filthy systems , that you would not power flush in a month of sundays never had a problem , only ever changed 2 plate exc due to carp in the system & that was after 2 to 3 years !

£100+ part every 2yr doesn't sound good to me

Well that depends how you look at it because one of the plates was installed due to the fact that the system could not be flushed cast iron rads single pipe system iron pipes ect it was installed to protect the boiler !

The other was on a combi , reason for failure was because I did not install boiler protection , firm beleiver in boiler protection since 1998 y strainers
now magnetic protection !

 

[5TIMES]

CC

So you fit boilers on systems full of sh***? feel sorry for your customers

 

[bengasman]

...As for effiency claims from some in the power flushing industry ? ...

Bovine manure. Cleaning a system will not produce a noticeable efficiency improvement.

 

[transam]

CC

So you fit boilers on systems full of sh***? feel sorry for your customers

If that is for me ??

Just because some one questions something , does not mean they do not do it , one should never jump to conclusions !

Inhibitors have been available as far back as I can remember , squllions of gallons of the stuff have been sold , & used some where I assume some of it has ended up in the odd heating system , I assume it did what it said on the tin ??

Strange really install condensing boilers to better the enviroment , & than nationally dump thousands of gallons of chemicals down the nearest drain , along with tons ?? of magnatite ??

Will be power flushing 2 jobs next week

 

[petit_pablo]

The customer probably won't notice the difference, but I do.
By far the number one reason for my work in breakdowns/replacements is corrosion. I never actually kept a log, but I would not be surprised if it accounts for more than all the rest together.

Id agree. Take my afternoon work yesterday as an example.

SD themaclassic(?) combi - wouldnt refill due to crud in the outlet of the filling valve NRV.

Baxi 105 HE - The gland seal on the pressure diff section had leaked for god knows how long welding the HW diff valve onto the back section.

Worcester 240 - Diverter valve spindle had seized due to crud building up.

All due to dirty system water.

BG are looking into the benefits of having filters fitted at the moment. The figures they have show that systems with a filter have 7% less problems. Not a large figure but theres something in it.

 

[OLLIE20]

CC

So you fit boilers on systems full of sh***? feel sorry for your customers

If that is for me ??

Just because some one questions something , does not mean they do not do it , one should never jump to conclusions !

Inhibitors have been available as far back as I can remember , squllions of gallons of the stuff have been sold , & used some where I assume some of it has ended up in the odd heating system , I assume it did what it said on the tin ??

Strange really install condensing boilers to better the enviroment , & than nationally dump thousands of gallons of chemicals down the nearest drain , along with tons ?? of magnatite ??
Will be power flushing 2 jobs next week

Thats without even mentioning all the spare parts that need 2 be made, and all the fuel for engineers vans, and the all the **** produced by the vans being driven all over ruining the atmosphere, 2 fix the ****e thats on the market these days

On the flushing if BG guarentee for life, as in 20 years it is well worth the extra money, as for £200 flush, the reason people go with BG is they're scared of cowboys who generally charge around £200 never to be seen again (i'm not suggesting you're a cowboy), there is a nationwide company who just do flushing and they charge £600+ aswell, as for rip off, i think not, if you're given a price and you choose to pay thats you're choice, if you think only BG do flushing you're a dumb arse

 

[screech]

£36.5k a year to flush rads? And you think thats such bad money you would laugh at it? That assumes you have no other work and each flush takes a full working day.

so working 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, no holidays and earn 36.5k then also have to pay for the van, tools and tax, sod that for the pathetic take home wage you'll end up with.

i believe 90% of powerflushes done aren't actually necessary. I'm amazed at the amount of people advised to have them done simply because their boilers are getting on a bit. Half the time the only fault is a blocked air sep or cold feed, cut out and repipe, good for another 20 years.

 

[oldtimeplumber]

Thanks for all the repies so far, turned into a hot potato really me thinks.

My point is simple, who is going to tell me that a power flush is hard work? - once the unit is connected to the system, what is hard about it, nothing, so all i am saying is why should there be an excessive charge for doing it?

I have been in this game for 30 years, and i have to laugh at some of the comments such as "often there is no need for a powerflush" - on a sealed system i am in agreement to some extent, but when it comes to open vented systems/gravity, (or conversion of) that can be another story.

We all have come across systems that have been installed by idiots i am sure, so (for example) you come across a system where it has been pumpng over, or the pump has been sucking in air via the open vent, would you expect any power flush to be necessary in that case.... i dont even have to have a look at the job....it will need a power flush!

After market magnetic filters are being sold as the be all end all, RUBBISH, these filters rely on the ability of the circulator being able in the first instance to 'move' the magnetite past the magnets, show me a domestic circulator that will do this on a drop feed system...They cant! - these filters can only filter out what is in suspension within the heating system thats all. - FACT!

So poor Mr jones whos rads are blocked up is being sold a piece of equipment that will not do the job, why because of the explanation already given.

That is where a power flush comes into it's own, and as stated many times, a power flush is the best option (bar a repipe) to resolve a sludged up system.

I have been in many situations (before power flush units came out) when two of you are carrying a huge great rad out side (house has beige carpets - why is that?) to run a hose pipe through it while trying to shake it!...Not good, oh and this is two weeks later after having been there to add 'super floc' into the system..... get my drift?...that is hard work.

Power flushing units came along, and to me my faith in god being a plumber was restored!

Some of you reading this post will not of done anything than a combi, so for those....please, spare me your wisdom!!

 

[oldtimeplumber]

Would you agree with this comment?

"Corrosion within central heating systems accounts for 90% of all system/boiler failures"

Source: Power flushing manufacturer.

 

[bengasman]

My point is simple, who is going to tell me that a power flush is hard work? - once the unit is connected to the system, what is hard about it, nothing,...

You have clearly no idea how a powerflush actually works. If you just stick the machine on for an x amount of time and just sit there watching it, you might as well not bother doing it at all.
A powerflush machine just churning round will no more solve the problem than a FGA on its own will tune a boiler.

 

[namsag]

As has been said powerflush is used by many as an excuse because they dont know how to diagnose even the simplest of system faults.

90% Figure is pure bull and should be pulled by trading standards,

Far more powerflushes are done to systems that do not require it than to systems that do. i wonder why ,would it be to do with £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

Petite
spindle on a 240 do you mean the one that comes out and hits the microswitch when HW demanded.

 

[gas_man_gaz]

Thanks for all the repies so far, turned into a hot potato really me thinks.

My point is simple, who is going to tell me that a power flush is hard work? - once the unit is connected to the system, what is hard about it, nothing, so all i am saying is why should there be an excessive charge for doing it?

I have been in this game for 30 years, and i have to laugh at some of the comments such as "often there is no need for a powerflush" - on a sealed system i am in agreement to some extent, but when it comes to open vented systems/gravity, (or conversion of) that can be another story.

We all have come across systems that have been installed by idiots i am sure, so (for example) you come across a system where it has been pumpng over, or the pump has been sucking in air via the open vent, would you expect any power flush to be necessary in that case.... i dont even have to have a look at the job....it will need a power flush!

After market magnetic filters are being sold as the be all end all, RUBBISH, these filters rely on the ability of the circulator being able in the first instance to 'move' the magnetite past the magnets, show me a domestic circulator that will do this on a drop feed system...They cant! - these filters can only filter out what is in suspension within the heating system thats all. - FACT!

So poor Mr jones whos rads are blocked up is being sold a piece of equipment that will not do the job, why because of the explanation already given.

That is where a power flush comes into it's own, and as stated many times, a power flush is the best option (bar a repipe) to resolve a sludged up system.

I have been in many situations (before power flush units came out) when two of you are carrying a huge great rad out side (house has beige carpets - why is that?) to run a hose pipe through it while trying to shake it!...Not good, oh and this is two weeks later after having been there to add 'super floc' into the system..... get my drift?...that is hard work.

Power flushing units came along, and to me my faith in god being a plumber was restored!

Some of you reading this post will not of done anything than a combi, so for those....please, spare me your wisdom!!

because to do a open vented sys it norm takes all day, is your day rate £200?