Design service for underfloor heating layout

[bernardgreen]

≥60% of the total heat emitters will be UFH with the rest being reconditioned school rads.

The problem with UHF is the thermal mass of the floor construction. It slows the response time for a change in temperature. Hence there has to be a way to rapidly heat a room. Hence a split between UHF and rads.

When a reduction in room temperature is required it takes time for the thermal mass to cool down. The heat energy of the thermal mass in that situation is wasted with normal UHF systems. Cooling the room may require opening windows. Heat recovery from the thermal mass has been tried ( heat pump system similar to ground coil source ) but the complexity and cost puts it beyond the domestic market.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Demonstrating a total lack of understanding of what has been posted Mr Green.

 

[PullerGas]

The problem with UHF is the thermal mass of the floor construction. It slows the response time for a change in temperature. Hence there has to be a way to rapidly heat a room. Hence a split between UHF and rads.

When a reduction in room temperature is required it takes time for the thermal mass to cool down. The heat energy of the thermal mass in that situation is wasted with normal UHF systems. Cooling the room may require opening windows. Heat recovery from the thermal mass has been tried ( heat pump system similar to ground coil source ) but the complexity and cost puts it beyond the domestic market.

Innate drivel!! BG, you don't have a clue how an UFH system works or how it's controlled. You've never designed or installed anything!!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Sorry Mods if this is a bit vitriolic but how many genuine professionals and helpful posters do you want to lose.

You are neither,.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Just for the OP to see how stable temperatures can be with UFH...

This is my ground floor - 70 or so square metres of open plan living space.

 

[Dan Robinson]

In case you're wondering SWMBO was cooking a massive curry this morning ready for tomorrow hence the rise in temperature at half ten.

 

[Twenty Four]

Listen mate, been designing & installing for years!! UFH systems are 20-30 years ahead of Engerland son. We were installing it in the late 80s.

As for the pros on here, the pros have been driven off this forum by the Google Warriors - freely passing out abuse unchecked.

Clearly, some chancer has had your pants down in the past & you think all Tradesmen are the same.

That ladies and gentlemen is how you wind up a wind up without any real effort.

 

[Twenty Four]

Too much nonsense posted by those who have no practical knowledge to be quoting them here.

But...

Properly controlled in an insulated building, UFH is fantastic. We've installed miles of the stuff in houses with very demanding clients and if it didn't work then rest assured we would know.

Just because you Bernard and you 24 live in your little bubbles you think that everything you have experienced is the be all and end all. Diversity is the fruit of life.... That being said I am tendering at the moment for a biomass installation which involves a central plant feeding 2 Tudor cottages and a soon to be built garage conversion - ≥60% of the total heat emitters will be UFH with the rest being reconditioned school rads.

Can work out the best way of providing hot water at the moment - there are unvented cylinders there at the moment. But one thing is for sure - it won't be gravity domestic services.

Believe me when I tell you my bubble would dwarf your bubble so let's no assume just because you install UFH you are an oracle above all others like you like to think. I'm certainly not against diversity and disagree with Bernard on a few things but, and it is a big but, listening to other opinions is also diversity not slamming them because you feel superior due to your trade.

That new tender of yours sounds interesting and why would anybody want to remove unvented cylinders for a gravity system? That's like competing in the long jump in slippers.

 

[Twenty Four]

The abuse comes mostly from a very few self acclaimed "pros" who resent the fact that the people they insult have access to and often have a better understanding of information that these self acclaimed pros would like kept away from owners of boilers.

At least two genuine professionals now avoid this forum simply to dis-associate themselves from the self acclaimed "pros" who dish out insults as part of their ego tripping.

Sorry Mods if this is a bit vitriolic but how many genuine professionals and helpful posters do you want to lose.

That does sum it up nicely.

However, there are still a couple of pros here that do like to type more than a few discouraging words and genuinely help.

 

[bernardgreen]

As for the pros on here, the pros have been driven off this forum by the Google Warriors - freely passing out abuse unchecked.

Care to explain how you are still here then and have not been driven off ?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Believe me when I tell you my bubble would dwarf your bubble so let's no assume just because you install UFH

Yes yes.... you truly are a legend in your own bath water I am sure.

I am far from an Oracle.... but I sure as schit know more about this kind of thing than you two obviously do.

 

[Twenty Four]

Just for the OP to see how stable temperatures can be with UFH...

View attachment 110179


This is my ground floor - 70 or so square metres of open plan living space.

Lovely, that is all it takes, a bit of audience participation. There is little one can argue about if the figures are displayed and factual. That installation is however in your home fitted by yourself. That shows you have done a decent job and the figures are taken during a steady cold spell. What is the stability of UFH like now it has raised 8 degrees in temperature? Does it behave itself? Is it merely a case of lowering target temp or can you leave it without a drastic overshoot? Do warm up/down times catch you out?

 

[Twenty Four]

Yes yes.... you truly are a legend in your own bath water I am sure.

I am far from an Oracle.... but I sure as schit know more about this kind of thing than you two obviously do.

The latter was never disputed or challenged but that is my point entirely. You aren't designed to discuss without throwing your toys out of the pram which isn't a very stable trait and those of us who don't feel the need to brag or command attention see that as a major weakness in your character. I'm sure you've heard that a million times though and probably from far nearer home.

 

[Dan Robinson]

It only overshoots due to occupation. The UFH is off. I could tell you about a system that is being fitted that mitigates that too, but I can not due to legal reasons.

What if I were to tell you the existing system as is has weather compensation that runs rads upstairs and UFH downstairs and an unvented cylinder?

Warm up times do not catch us out as the house has sub zoning that gives each room the chance to control its own needs - the system thinks that everywhere is UFH even if it is rads.

How about this system:

Picture taken while in progress, 236 square metres of UFH with a couple of rads.

All working perfectly.... Customer is a regular whom we install several complete system a year for - nearly all UFH - in fact the job I am starting next week for him is 50/50 UFH and rads. All to be run from those pump stations with no local temperature control at the manifolds, btu each room zoned accordingly.

Last year we signed off another for this customer 8Km of UFH in one house. All happy as Larry.


YOUR small circle of chums may not have good experience, but that does not mean everyone does. And to assume an installation is going to be poor - as in implied by your and Bernard (who repeatedly proven to be ignorant of system design considerations and should be banned from the plumbing forum) detracts from the, no doubt, millions of miles of tube that is installed around the globe.

 

[Twenty Four]

Care to explain how you are still here then and have not been driven off ?

Bernard, you only have to look across the numerous Internet forums to see he's treated like the drunk, old, píss smelling tramp taking up space on the park bench. His ego would be destroyed if he wasn't allowed to post how long he's been throwing boilers at the wall time and time again like every time is the first time.