Electric shock treatment

[tim west]

the complexity and nearness of components on boards could mean induced voltages are prevalent between different parts of the board ie it could complete a circuit by inducement with the need for adequate shielding of certain components or parts of a pcb to others sections bit like aerial and receiver or those contactless chargers.

 

[Softus]

If they are not on the same circuit, and do not have a shared reference point of any sort, then where is the potential for there to be a potential difference between them?

Quite clearly it's in the glint in the eye of the circuit designer.

 

[tim west]

the word potential means a hypothetical or possible event may or may not occur but it has the "potential" to.

If that's all you've been trying to say all along, then (a) you've failed miserably, and (b) it's a completely pointless term to use.

Potential, using the plain language definition, could mean that there are no volts, or that there are some volts. Either way, the value of that potential difference can be measured. By you, or by me, or by anyone with a galvanometer.

So you measure Potential difference with a Galvanometer do you? thats news to me, I always thought you measured Potential difference with a voltmeter! Or is this a new branch of physics you are inventing?

 

[plugwash]

Dare I say,
voltage potential is introduced by stray resistance/capacitance/inductance on a circuit board etc that could introduce a potential via something once it is actually connected to a source yet at the moment (say still on the bench and waiting to be inserted) has no PD?

NO NO NO

potential difference is the difference in electrical potential which is the integral of the electric field between two points. Regardless of whether that field is deliberate or accidental is irrelevent.

Note that potential doesn't exist in an absoloute sense (or at least if it does we humans have no way of measuring it which ammounts to the same thing) just as velocity doesn't. We can only talk about potential relative to some defined zero point (usually but not always earth).

Also strictly speaking there is not a potential difference of 240V between live and neutral there is a potential difference that is varying continuously between -340V and +340V. We just use the RMS

 

[tim west]

it is possible to measure charge though, remember the thin metal foil devices they had at college and at school during physics so the potential must be there we cant put a voltage on it as said before due to no reference only a potential voltage, softus was wrong as he mentioned potentialTMdifference© which is a measurable voltage.

 

[Softus]

So you measure Potential difference with a Galvanometer do you?

Certainly not, but we now know that you're not completely stupid, with the added bonus that you've started to use the correct alternative term for voltage, that being potential difference.

 

[tim west]

So you measure Potential difference with a Galvanometer do you?

Certainly not, but we now know that you're not completely stupid, with the added bonus that you've started to use the correct alternative term for voltage, that being potential difference.

and pray what has that to do with potential voltage? i've been saying throughout that pd is a measurable voltage.
oh and i presume you measure my being stupid by reference to your own stupidity otherwise i'd only be potentially stupid

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the complexity and nearness of components on boards could mean induced voltages are prevalent between different parts of the board

Induced voltages between what, with reference to a common equipotential what?

ie it could complete a circuit by inducement with the need for adequate shielding of certain components or parts of a pcb to others sections bit like aerial and receiver or those contactless chargers.

Of course with two adjacent circuits, or sub-assemblies, or components you could get a voltage in one induced by activity in the other, but that induced voltage will be between two points in the "inducee" circuit, not between the inducee and the inducer. There is no more a voltage, or potential difference, or a potential voltage, or a voltage potential between the two circuits than there is between my radio and the radio transmitter, even though the latter induces potential differences within the former...

 

[Softus]

what has that to do with potential voltage? i've been saying throughout that pd is a measurable voltage.

All voltages in any given circuit are measurable, even when they're zero.

No voltage exists, and no potential for a voltage exists, when there is no circuit.

If your invented term (PV) has any purpose, then it describes a conductor that isn't connected to anything at one end and doesn't form part of a broken circuit with anything and has no measurable voltage.

For that it would be simpler just to use the word "conductor".

 

[tim west]

Bas think of two wirewound components sitting close to each other, resemble something in the big electrical world?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So you measure Potential difference with a Galvanometer do you?

You can do, if you use it to measure the current passing through a known series resistance.

They may be called voltmeters, but moving coil instruments are just sensitive galvanometers with a switchable selection of series resistances built into the case.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Bas think of two wirewound components sitting close to each other, resemble something in the big electrical world?

Ooh - how about a transformer?

Much valued for safety reasons because they separate things - there is no potential difference between the primary and the secondary.

 

[tim west]

All voltages in any given circuit are measurable, even when they're zero.

Agreed

No voltage exists, when there is no circuit.

agreed

and no potential for a voltage exists,

wrong!

If your invented term (PV) has any purpose, then it describes a conductor that isn't connected to anything at one end and doesn't form part of a broken circuit with anything and has no measurable voltage.

And you say i confuse the issue! what does that utter drivel actually mean?

For that it would be simpler just to use the word "conductor".

as in bus? or orchestra?
look up what the word conductor means in electrical terms and when you have actually read it then come back.

 

[Softus]

and no potential for a voltage exists,

wrong!

Then in your definition every piece of matter in the known universe has a potential voltage. That makes it a useless term.

And you say i confuse the issue!

No. I've never said that.

For that it would be simpler just to use the word "conductor".

as in bus? or orchestra?

If this were the public transport or orchestral music forum, then yes, but sadly it isn't either of those.

 

[megawatt]

I must admit to being somewhat surprised by a few of the posts in this topic particularly from BAS ... Is this the same BAS who used to post with authority a year or so ago?

If so, I think the time away has dulled your edge oh great one.

Voltage Potential in circuit terms is the ability of one element of a design to induce a voltage in another ... the higher the potential the more likely it is to occur. This has absolutely nothing to do with voltage or potential difference or anything else of similar vein nor does it suggest a potential difference between the circuits.

Why is this causing everyone such a problem?

MW