EV are they worth it?

[Avocet]

(16 mins )

A road test of the Audi e-tron GT by high peak autos. He's doing a 230 mile drive down to Eastbourne from Stockport area, so all heavily developed, motorways etc. Brutal comments on charging infrastructure, eye-watering cost of charge, complimentary about car except its price - £ 93K

​

What a snowflake! Crikey, he made a meal of that! He reminded me a bit of these militant cyclists who go out with their helmet cams, looking for confrontations to film, so they can put them on YouTube and feel important.

So, he goes off and finds a very expensive EV, so he can cry about how expensive it is. Also, a notoriously "thirsty" one... but I'm sure that was just coincidence... He could have picked an MG4 at just over 1/3 of the price, but I guess that wouldn't have made such a good story...

Then he charges it up fully - fair enough, and sets off. However, for some bizarre reason, he picks a tourist attraction for his first charging stop. Now, common sense should have told him that a tourist attraction might be busy, and that the chargers there, would be really slow ones, because if you're going to spend a day at Bletchley Park, it would be a bit pointless plugging into a high powered one that could charge you in 20 minutes, so places like that tend to have pretty slow chargers, but OK, maybe he couldn't reasonably have been expected to work that one out. If it's anything like my car, he could have tapped on the suggested charging point, and it would have told him what the power was. Or, indeed, he could have just set the filters on the sat-nav to tell the car not to bother with chargers that were below a certain power. Or, indeed, he could have used a 3rd Party App like "ZapMap" which would even tell him whether the chargers were in use or not, in real time.

Now I have to admit, this is where Tesla have got all the competition knocked into a cocked hat. All their chargers work the same way, they're all of similar power, and the car's software talks to the charging network, so the car knows which charging areas are busy when it works out the best place for you to stop. It also knows the car and the car knows the charger, so there's no messing about with apps or contactless cards, or anything like that. You just plug the car in and the charger knows which car it is, and who to send the bill to. (Pity I don't really like Teslas)!

Then he goes off to some poxy little kerbside charger. I really don't know why! Again, they'er designed for people to park and plug in for long periods, so they're very slow. If he knew how to use the car's software, he could probably have found that out...

Then he goes to a BP Pulse charger, which is out of order. That's fair enough. Too many of them are out of order. I turned up at an Instavolt the other week, only to find some thieving scumbag had cut through the charging cables to nick the copper!

Finally, he goes off to a motorway service station. You can see what's coming here! He's going to go somewhere really busy, and he's going to find they're all taken! Sure enough, he's not disappointed! (Or rather, he IS disappointed, but that's probably what he was hoping for). Another problem, is that he's run the car pretty low before charging. Some of it due to his own incompetence, but some of it also due to circumstances outside of his control. Generally, I've found the trick with EVs on long journeys is "little and often". Unlike ICEs where people tend to run them until the light comes on and then look for a fuel station, I find it's better to stop whenever I want to (like if I need a wee or some sweeties), and plug in regardless of state of charge, while I go and do whatever it is I do. I'm rarely on a fast public charger for more than 15 minutes, and usually less than 10. (I also tend to avoid service stations, because they're nearly always busy. Charging stations that are just a few hundred yards of random motorway junctions are usually a good bet.

He also moans about having to **** about with an "app" to get a charge, and the cost of the charging. Here, I am in full agreement! It's ludicrous, but that's what you get when the government relies on the private sector to provide the infrastructure! Fortunately, (too late!) the government ins bringing in regulations to require ALL public chargers over 8kW, to accept contactless payment. I quite like Gridserve, because they do. Just rock-up, plug in, and tap the same card that you'd use in a petrol station (or indeed, any shop). There's nothing to stop companies using apps and loyalty cards as well (just like petrol stations do), but they MUST also accept contactless. About bloody time! And yes, they're a rip-off. Again, not great, but that's free market capitalism for you! Of course, he didn't HAVE to put £60 in to complete his journey... if he hadn't, not only would he have spent less money, but he wouldn't have been on the charger for as long...

Without doubt, the public charging infrastructure is not good enough. I know, I use it a lot! Next week, I'm away testing in Kent. That's 408 miles door-to-door, each way. It's the first time I will have done that trip in an EV (though by no means the first long trip I've done in an EV), so I'll post up my honest experience on here, if anyone is interested?

 

[Avocet]

On the BBC TV Look East this morning ( October 11th ) :- a report that Covea insurance are reluctant to quote for insuring fully electric vehicles.

Yes, I've heard that too. It was the same when manufacturers started making cars out of aluminium. It really was the end of the world. Body shops wouldn't touch them, and they got written off at the drop of a hat. Fortunately, the repair industry seems to have got its act together on that - as I'm sure they will with EVs, in due course.

 

[Avocet]

Yes I can. I once crashed into the curb while adjusting the radio. Now I don't do anything while driving. I'd be extra careful even when I move my eye balls.

Bloody hell! Are you sure you should be in possession of a driving licence?! What you need, is an EV like mine, with voice-activated commands. I just tell it to play Radio 4 (or whatever). Fewer distractions, see...

Distractions in EV's make them crash magnets.

So what distractions would those be, then? The gear lever? The clutch pedal?

The law is correct to disallow the driver to do anything at all with a mobile phone. Same needs to apply to EV's.

You're absolutely right. I never drive whilst holding an EV. That would be very dangerous indeed!

It's not beyond possibility one day a law will be passed to blanket ban all EV's not meeting certain requirements, in the same way they came down heavy on diesels.

There are already laws banning vehicles (electric or any other sort) that don't meet blanket requirements...

 

[DiyNutJob]

So what distractions would those be, then? The gear lever? The clutch pedal?

The car start talking unexpectedly due to software bug. This could send you into a crash.

There are already laws banning vehicles (electric or any other sort) that don't meet blanket requirements...

There is no law currently to ban distractions in EVs, such as flashing lights on screens, or unexpected voices.

 

[securespark]

We have just got our first EV. I must say I'm very impressed with the overall experience.

I started off by charging with the granny lead, at around 1.8kW. Which wasn't really a problem overnight.

Then eventually, we got our smart meter and Ohme charger fitted.

We're with Octopus and I applied for their Electroverse card. It's a fantastic improvement on getting a million apps to use public chargers. Electroverse is not compatible with all of them, but it's a damn good start. And you can opt to have the public charge costs added to your electricity bill.

The only issue I have occasionally come across is that a charger unit is not working.

At the moment, we haven't done any huge journeys. We did go round the Peaks a couple of months ago and that proved OK. We did drop below 20% on the way home, but a quick tap of the screen put us into ECO mode. We were fine.

We get by by charging overnight at home. 7.5p on Octopus.

The car apparently has modular batteries that can be swapped out, but we're not too worried as we are leasing.

My only gripe is that some of the safety systems on the car are extra cautious. Sometimes the car brakes and there is no apparent reason why.

 

[Avocet]

The car start talking unexpectedly due to software bug. This could send you into a crash.

Seriously, are you sure you should be driving at all?

There is no law currently to ban distractions in EVs, such as flashing lights on screens, or unexpected voices.

Correct - not for EVs or for ICEs. I think it's because the regulators feel (quite rightly) that anyone who can't handle voices or warning lights, probably shouldn't be driving...

 

[Avocet]

We have just got our first EV. I must say I'm very impressed with the overall experience.

I started off by charging with the granny lead, at around 1.8kW. Which wasn't really a problem overnight.

Then eventually, we got our smart meter and Ohme charger fitted.

We're with Octopus and I applied for their Electroverse card. It's a fantastic improvement on getting a million apps to use public chargers. Electroverse is not compatible with all of them, but it's a damn good start. And you can opt to have the public charge costs added to your electricity bill.

The only issue I have occasionally come across is that a charger unit is not working.

At the moment, we haven't done any huge journeys. We did go round the Peaks a couple of months ago and that proved OK. We did drop below 20% on the way home, but a quick tap of the screen put us into ECO mode. We were fine.

We get by by charging overnight at home. 7.5p on Octopus.

The car apparently has modular batteries that can be swapped out, but we're not too worried as we are leasing.

My only gripe is that some of the safety systems on the car are extra cautious. Sometimes the car brakes and there is no apparent reason why.

That's typical of what I hear from most people who actually run EVs in real life, and much the same as my experience (although I envy you the smart meter)! We've just moved to Octopus, but we don't have a smart meter yet, so I can't get the more attractive tariffs. I'll certainly look into the "electroverse" thing - thanks! My car came with a card that gets me reduced price charging at Ionity and BP Pulse chargers. It was free for the first year, but then there's a monthly subscription. As yet, there are so few Ionity chargers that I use, so I'm not sure it will be worth the subscription, but the BP one might. What we really need, however, is more competition. In the same way that petrol stations are so numerous that their prices can't fluctuate wildly from one to the next, I'm sure that will happen with EV chargers in the future, as the market matures.

The over-keen collision avoidance system isn't peculiar to EVs, I'm afraid. New ICEs have them too, and yes, the technology isn't perfect and they do give the occasional false alarm.

 

[mointainwalker]

What a snowflake! Crikey, he made a meal of that! He reminded me a bit of these militant cyclists who go out with their helmet cams, looking for confrontations to film, so they can put them on YouTube and feel important.

So, he goes off and finds a very expensive EV, so he can cry about how expensive it is. Also, a notoriously "thirsty" one... but I'm sure that was just coincidence... He could have picked an MG4 at just over 1/3 of the price, but I guess that wouldn't have made such a good story...

Then he charges it up fully - fair enough, and sets off. However, for some bizarre reason, he picks a tourist attraction for his first charging stop. Now, common sense should have told him that a tourist attraction might be busy, and that the chargers there, would be really slow ones, because if you're going to spend a day at Bletchley Park, it would be a bit pointless plugging into a high powered one that could charge you in 20 minutes, so places like that tend to have pretty slow chargers, but OK, maybe he couldn't reasonably have been expected to work that one out. If it's anything like my car, he could have tapped on the suggested charging point, and it would have told him what the power was. Or, indeed, he could have just set the filters on the sat-nav to tell the car not to bother with chargers that were below a certain power. Or, indeed, he could have used a 3rd Party App like "ZapMap" which would even tell him whether the chargers were in use or not, in real time.

Now I have to admit, this is where Tesla have got all the competition knocked into a cocked hat. All their chargers work the same way, they're all of similar power, and the car's software talks to the charging network, so the car knows which charging areas are busy when it works out the best place for you to stop. It also knows the car and the car knows the charger, so there's no messing about with apps or contactless cards, or anything like that. You just plug the car in and the charger knows which car it is, and who to send the bill to. (Pity I don't really like Teslas)!

Then he goes off to some poxy little kerbside charger. I really don't know why! Again, they'er designed for people to park and plug in for long periods, so they're very slow. If he knew how to use the car's software, he could probably have found that out...

Then he goes to a BP Pulse charger, which is out of order. That's fair enough. Too many of them are out of order. I turned up at an Instavolt the other week, only to find some thieving scumbag had cut through the charging cables to nick the copper!

Finally, he goes off to a motorway service station. You can see what's coming here! He's going to go somewhere really busy, and he's going to find they're all taken! Sure enough, he's not disappointed! (Or rather, he IS disappointed, but that's probably what he was hoping for). Another problem, is that he's run the car pretty low before charging. Some of it due to his own incompetence, but some of it also due to circumstances outside of his control. Generally, I've found the trick with EVs on long journeys is "little and often". Unlike ICEs where people tend to run them until the light comes on and then look for a fuel station, I find it's better to stop whenever I want to (like if I need a wee or some sweeties), and plug in regardless of state of charge, while I go and do whatever it is I do. I'm rarely on a fast public charger for more than 15 minutes, and usually less than 10. (I also tend to avoid service stations, because they're nearly always busy. Charging stations that are just a few hundred yards of random motorway junctions are usually a good bet.

He also moans about having to **** about with an "app" to get a charge, and the cost of the charging. Here, I am in full agreement! It's ludicrous, but that's what you get when the government relies on the private sector to provide the infrastructure! Fortunately, (too late!) the government ins bringing in regulations to require ALL public chargers over 8kW, to accept contactless payment. I quite like Gridserve, because they do. Just rock-up, plug in, and tap the same card that you'd use in a petrol station (or indeed, any shop). There's nothing to stop companies using apps and loyalty cards as well (just like petrol stations do), but they MUST also accept contactless. About bloody time! And yes, they're a rip-off. Again, not great, but that's free market capitalism for you! Of course, he didn't HAVE to put £60 in to complete his journey... if he hadn't, not only would he have spent less money, but he wouldn't have been on the charger for as long...

Without doubt, the public charging infrastructure is not good enough. I know, I use it a lot! Next week, I'm away testing in Kent. That's 408 miles door-to-door, each way. It's the first time I will have done that trip in an EV (though by no means the first long trip I've done in an EV), so I'll post up my honest experience on here, if anyone is interested?

You appear to be so wedded to your view that you cannot believe anything else: calm down or the blood-pressure might go past the red line. As for the car tested, can you not possibly understand that it was simply offered to him and he accepted it ? He is a vlogger, not the motoring journalist of the Sunday Times who undoubtedly does have a lot of clout with manufacturers. I really doubt that he chose it deliberately as something to flame. Choosing charging points: I don't know what detail is shown on these apps, re speed of charging or number of chargers.
I don't believe he has any particular point-of-view to protect or promote: he is simply appraoching it as a new user and giving his honest opinion of what he experiences.

Re stopping: he did stop when he felt like it, but was also forced to make more because of fuel state . He was only driving 230 miles. Personally that would be either zero or one stop, although I also like to take in places such as Bletchley park en route when possible.

 

[Avocet]

You appear to be so wedded to your view that you cannot believe anything else: calm down or the blood-pressure might go past the red line. As for the car tested, can you not possibly understand that it was simply offered to him and he accepted it ? He is a vlogger, not the motoring journalist of the Sunday Times who undoubtedly does have a lot of clout with manufacturers. I really doubt that he chose it deliberately as something to flame. Choosing charging points: I don't know what detail is shown on these apps, re speed of charging or number of chargers.
I don't believe he has any particular point-of-view to protect or promote: he is simply appraoching it as a new user and giving his honest opinion of what he experiences.

Re stopping: he did stop when he felt like it, but was also forced to make more because of fuel state . He was only driving 230 miles. Personally that would be either zero or one stop, although I also like to take in places such as Bletchley park en route when possible.

As, indeed, you appear to be wedded to yours! Looking at his website he has close on 500 videos and over 300,000 followers, so I don't really buy the "it was all he could get" suggestion. He's got video reviews of Porsches, M-Series Beamers, Aston Martins, Bentleys, AMG Mercs...

... so basically, I hope you'll forgive me if I appear somewhat sceptical about the notion that he doesn't have any clout.

But OK, I'll humour you. Let's suppose that it is exactly as you suggest, and someone offered him the chance of taking a long run, in a very expensive EV with notoriously poor range and low efficiency, and it wasn't quite fully-charged when he set off.

So this guy, whose opinion, let's face it, 300,000+ people rate highly enough to follow, sets off in this car, and doesn't appear to know much about how to use the features it has, and makes a very poor decision for his first charging stop. That's not the car's fault and it's not the infrastructure's fault, is it?

He then makes a second charging stop - (also a poor choice on his part). Again not the car's fault, and not the infrastructure's fault. That's analogous to taking a petrol car out for a test and filling it with diesel, or at least, not knowing how to undo the fuel cap, frankly. I watched the video at a faster speed and skipped a few bits, so I might be doing the guy an injustice, but I don't remember him at any point saying "actually, those two were my fault, I made some silly choices". Instead, it all feeds the narrative that the anti-EV brigade so desperately want to hear, about how it's impossible to charge an EV on a long run.

He then makes a third charging stop - this time a sensible one, and the charger is out of order. Fair enough, I have no complaint here at all, as I said in my previous post. That's 100% down to poor infrastructure.

And lastly, he makes a fourth stop (on what should have been a journey with either no stops or at most a single, 10 minute stop), at a busy motorway service area. Another poor choice, but I do accept that by this time, he was desperate, and again, a fair point that all the chargers were taken. (Remember I'm not saying the current UK charging infrastructure is adequate, but in fairness, it's nothing LIKE as bad as he's trying to paint it). And for good measure, he then puts in far more charge than he needs to get to his destination, (taking up a charger for longer than necessary), and then complains about how much it cost him.

The real question is: why are you so keen to defend him?

 

[mointainwalker]

As, indeed, you appear to be wedded to yours! Looking at his website he has close on 500 videos and over 300,000 followers, so I don't really buy the "it was all he could get" suggestion. He's got video reviews of Porsches, M-Series Beamers, Aston Martins, Bentleys, AMG Mercs...

... so basically, I hope you'll forgive me if I appear somewhat sceptical about the notion that he doesn't have any clout.

But OK, I'll humour you. Let's suppose that it is exactly as you suggest, and someone offered him the chance of taking a long run, in a very expensive EV with notoriously poor range and low efficiency, and it wasn't quite fully-charged when he set off.

So this guy, whose opinion, let's face it, 300,000+ people rate highly enough to follow, sets off in this car, and doesn't appear to know much about how to use the features it has, and makes a very poor decision for his first charging stop. That's not the car's fault and it's not the infrastructure's fault, is it?

He then makes a second charging stop - (also a poor choice on his part). Again not the car's fault, and not the infrastructure's fault. That's analogous to taking a petrol car out for a test and filling it with diesel, or at least, not knowing how to undo the fuel cap, frankly. I watched the video at a faster speed and skipped a few bits, so I might be doing the guy an injustice, but I don't remember him at any point saying "actually, those two were my fault, I made some silly choices". Instead, it all feeds the narrative that the anti-EV brigade so desperately want to hear, about how it's impossible to charge an EV on a long run.

He then makes a third charging stop - this time a sensible one, and the charger is out of order. Fair enough, I have no complaint here at all, as I said in my previous post. That's 100% down to poor infrastructure.

And lastly, he makes a fourth stop (on what should have been a journey with either no stops or at most a single, 10 minute stop), at a busy motorway service area. Another poor choice, but I do accept that by this time, he was desperate, and again, a fair point that all the chargers were taken. (Remember I'm not saying the current UK charging infrastructure is adequate, but in fairness, it's nothing LIKE as bad as he's trying to paint it). And for good measure, he then puts in far more charge than he needs to get to his destination, (taking up a charger for longer than necessary), and then complains about how much it cost him.

The real question is: why are you so keen to defend him?

" The real question is: why are you so keen to defend him?"

Because you seem to be a fanatic, and I am always very taken by the idea of having events portrayed fairly, which obviously fanatics never do( see next para about cars tested for example ) . Also, as I have previously said, I don't believe he has any fixed viewpoint that he wants to promote and is just telling it as he finds.

"He's got video reviews of Porsches, M-Series Beamers, Aston Martins, Bentleys, AMG Mercs. so I hope you'll forgive me if I appear somewhat sceptical about the notion that he doesn't have any clout. "

With the exception of a Bentley ( lent by a local dealer and not Bentley Cars ) I think all the cars reviewed are ones he has bought for his business and is re-selling, so your insinuation there ends up in the ditch I believe. Also a good example of what I see as factual distortiohn by someone with a heavy agenda to push.

"And for good measure, he then puts in far more charge than he needs to get to his destination, (taking up a charger for longer than necessary), and then complains about how much it cost him"

Really ?????? Does that charge somehow dissipate ? Can't he use it to get home again ? Don't you think - just a little bit - given all the problems he has suffered thus far, it makes sense to fill up when he can ? I think so, because not only will it minimise buggeration on the return journey, apparently he (nobody ) knows what a charge may cost them anyway at any given location and he could get stung just as badly again.

 

[JohnD]

It's an entertainment video.

He makes his money out of material that attracts attention.

In the same way, no serious person follows clickbait or believes the stories in the Daily Wail.

 

[DiyNutJob]

You appear to be so wedded to your view that you cannot believe anything else: calm down or the blood-pressure might go past the red line.

It's just infatuation. He'll come out of it when reality kicks in. He's not as big a fanboi as he is making it out to be. He did not risk his own money and using a company car. Probably a lease.

Given the inconvenience, I wouldn't even dream of test driving an EV. In the same way I avoid tools that use battery.

 

[Avocet]

" The real question is: why are you so keen to defend him?"

Because you seem to be a fanatic, and I am always very taken by the idea of having events portrayed fairly, which obviously fanatics never do. Also, as I have previously said, I don't believe he has any fixed viewpoint that he wants to promote and is just telling it as he finds.

Well that's interesting, isn't it...? You claim to want events portrayed "fairly", but when I have pointed out the unfairness of the first two charging points he selected and his blaming of "the infrastructure" for what were actually his own, inadequacies, you seem remarkably touchy on the subject! So much so, in fact, that I'm starting to wonder whether you are looking for "fairness" here, or whether you're actually looking for confirmation of your existing prejudices...?

"He's got video reviews of Porsches, M-Series Beamers, Aston Martins, Bentleys, AMG Mercs. so I hope you'll forgive me if I appear somewhat sceptical about the notion that he doesn't have any clout. "

With the exception of a Bentley ( lent by a local dealer and not Bentley Cars ) I think all the cars reviewed are ones he has bought for his business and is re-selling, so your insinuation there ends up in the ditch I believe. Also a good example of what I see as factual distortiohn by someone with a heavy agenda to push.

Methinks the man slinging accusations of "fanaticism" and "heavy distortions" about, doth protest too much...

"And for good measure, he then puts in far more charge than he needs to get to his destination, (taking up a charger for longer than necessary), and then complains about how much it cost him"

Really ?????? Does that charge somehow dissipate ? Can't he use it to get home again ? Don't you think - just a little bit - given all the problems he has suffered thus far, it makes sense to fill up when he can ? I think so, because not only will it minimise buggeration on the return journey, apparently he (nobody ) knows what a charge may cost them anyway at any given location and he could get stung just as badly again.

No, I don't think the charge will evaporate, and yes, I do think he can use it on the way back. However, as I pointed out in my post, what I do object to, is him then crying about how the trip had cost him £60. It didn't need to cost him £60. At about 10 minutes 30, he says the claim that EVs should be cheaper to run than ICEs "was a lie". At the start, he said he was going to try and do 280 miles on a 95% charge. He then goes and puts in enough charge to get him the rest of the way to his destination and at least half way back...

Now I'm sure that being as interested in fairness as you claim to be, you would agree that if I set out in an ICE to go on a journey, and I complained how much I'd had to spend on fuel on the way down, when in fact, I'd put in enough to get me half way back as well, that would be a tad...

...unfair?

 

[Avocet]

It's just infatuation. He'll come out of it when reality kicks in. He's not as big a fanboi as he is making it out to be. He did not risk his own money and using a company car. Probably a lease.

Which bit of "company car" don't you understand? No, it' not a lease, it's a company car. Got it?

Given the inconvenience, I wouldn't even dream of test driving an EV. In the same way I avoid tools that use battery.

Looking at the rest of your posts, I think that's probably a good move. You really don't come across as someone capable of handling the task.

 

[Avocet]

It's an entertainment video.

He makes his money out of material that attracts attention.

In the same way, no serious person follows clickbait or believes the stories in the Daily Wail.

I agree with almost all of that, but sadly, plenty of people do form opinions based on this kind of rubbish (and, indeed, on what they read in the Daily Mail)! (Which, of course, is part of the reason we ended up with Brexit...).