EV are they worth it?

[Avocet]

Rather a one-sided 'conversation' today!
I wouldn't bother to discuss with a staunch pro-EV member, certainly one who cannot see two sides to a situation.

You have a choice, you could turn it into a 2-sided conversation...

 

[ReganAndCarter]

And yet they last longer than cars did in the '70s...

Where did I say they didn't?

 

[Avocet]

The biggest threat to Classics is corrosion & over the decades various factors concerning the build of the vehicle have played it's part. I have owned US built trucks that were churned out by the tens of thousands for WW2 military use & consequently no consideration was ever given to rust protection for a vehicle whose predicted combat life was measured in hours but 70 years later many are still in private hands & in original condition .. the secret(?) quality of the steel used in the construction.

I'm finding that one pretty hard to swallow, to be honest! I would suggest that wartime steel wasn't anything special, and that tucks lasted a long time because (being trucks) they were made of much thicker steel, rather than the quality. We did, after all, have a variety of Liberty ships snapping in half during the war - admittedly, partly due to the Americans pioneering welded construction, rather than riveted, but also partly because the steel was pants and went brittle below about 4 degrees C. During the war, we were so desperate, that people were donating old iron railings!

Post-war the quality of steel declined & cars were falling apart after as little as 5 years, until the mid eighties when most manufacturers got to grip with the problem by introducing effective rust-proofing from the factory.

The other thing that happened post-war, is that manufacturers started to move away from a separate chassis and go for monocoque construction. This necessitated the use of much thinner steel. Early ones were absolute rustbuckets - lots of things that it has taken us a long time to learn - how to avoid water traps; not to put dissimilar metals in contact with each other, but use plastic inserts for screwing things to; ventilation of closed box sections; drainage of door bottoms; weld-through mastics and seam sealers; new coating materials and techniques; galvanised but paintable steel with a decent surface finish; the use of plastic wheelarch liners... Rustproofing isn't just about the coating. I would also suggest that it wasn't until the early '90s that manufacturers really got on top of this.

Todays' cars are far less susceptible to corrosion & will last much longer than those produced, say in the 'seventies, but will become uneconomical to repair due to their complexity & can easily become a financial write-off long before they 'wear out' in conventional terms .. also technology is used to design a car with the reliability to last for it's warranty period .. they have become disposable items, just like household white goods.

nb. the classic car industry in the UK is estimated to be worth 7 billion pounds a year.

And yet the last time I looked, the average age of a vehicle in the UK at scrappage was 14.7 years - the oldest it's ever been!

 

[Avocet]

People will be increasingly forced into EV ownership because of the people who were sold in EV dream and more of them buying new ones. This will lead to less choice for people who want ICE second, third or fourth hand vehicles. Also the people who rush headlong into buying new EVs encourage governments to accelerate bans of ICE vehicles - again reducing choice for buyers of used vehicles who may not want EVs.

Well, the increasing scarcity of oil is going to do that for you anyway, so you may as well get used to it! And if that's not bad enough, we'll have more floods and wildfires to enjoy too. I'm afraid the world is facing larger problems than having to keep you in the sort of transport that you have come to expect as some kind of fundamental human right. If more people are going out and buying EVs, then that's democracy in action, is it not? And if the old cars you seem so enthusiastic about are so easy to keep on the road indefinitely, what's your problem? You don't like these new-fangled ones with all their ECUs and complexity anyway! The truy bizarre thing, is that each time someone buys an EV, there's a little bit more oil left for you to burn in your ICE - if anything you should be grateful! I have an old 1980s ICE which I'm very fond of. The way I see it, the more "ordinary" miles I can do in an EV, the longer the oil will last for the occasional wee treat in my old car.

Two years ago, Tesla slashed list prices of their cars - at a stroke reducing the value of all Teslas. Not a great vote of confidence in their own products.

In the same way as when Easyjet (and then Ryanair) slashed air fares, that was them showing a lack of confidence in what they were selling? No. Tesla can see the threat from China, and went on the offensive on pricing. That's bad news for anyone who paid full whack for a Tesla before they did that, but it's driving down costs for the consumer - funny enough, supposedly one of the main criticisms from the anti-EV brigade! As the manufacturer of the world's best-selling EV, I'd say Tesla (and Musk in particular) have completely the opposite problem - too MUCH faith in their product!

I hope this helped with your understanding.

And I hope this helps with yours...

 

[Avocet]

Where did I say they didn't?

It was a random decade from the past. I could just as easily have said '60s. or '80s. or '50s.

 

[JBR]

You have a choice, you could turn it into a 2-sided conversation...

No. As far as I'm concerned, you can carry on as much as you like, on your own.
You're not related to a certain 'Garibaldi' (on a quite different site), are you?

 

[Avocet]

No. As far as I'm concerned, you can carry on as much as you like, on your own.

Fair enough - your choice. but in that case, don't start crying about it being "one-sided"! c

You're not related to a certain 'Garibaldi' (on a quite different site), are you?

That doesn't narrow it down much, does it? However, if it helps, I've always been "Avocet" on any internet fora I've joined (unless that's already been taken, and I've had to be "Avocet1" or something).

 

[DiyNutJob]

I have already mentioned it before. It's pretty much a no brainer. When the ban eventually comes, I wonder who bears the cost? The manufacturer knows the problem. Maybe they can be sued for entrapment?

 

[Avocet]

I have already mentioned it before. It's pretty much a no brainer. When the ban eventually comes, I wonder who bears the cost? The manufacturer knows the problem. Maybe they can be sued for entrapment?

What an absolute W

Thank heaven for the Youtube facility that lets you play these tedious BS videos at double speed - at least that's only 9 minutes of my life I won't get back...

Guys, if anyone else is thinking of wasting their time watching this drivel, (spoiler alert!) he basically thinks EVs are going to get banned because they have touchscreens in them and you have to take your eye off the road to operate certain controls. That's it, really, it took him nearly 20 minutes to say that!

Now, whilst I'm no fan of touchscreens either, I don't think he's worked out that they're not unique to EVs yet...

 

[DiyNutJob]

I am beginning to see how EV's will work. They make them unaffordable to reduce cars on the road. Then infrastructure won't be needed any more.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I am beginning to see how EV's will work. They make them unaffordable to reduce cars on the road. Then infrastructure won't be needed any more.

I don't doubt that the powers that be would be happy that the greatly increased cost of EV ownership means that car ownership is out of reach to many. However, they've provided the impoverished mainly younger members of society with affordable EVs. They're called scooters.

 

[Avocet]

I am beginning to see how EV's will work. They make them unaffordable to reduce cars on the road. Then infrastructure won't be needed any more.

Gosh! That's a step up from the usual garbage. There's an element of truth to it. Of course, it still contains some hysterical figures, (what clickbait video wouldn't?!), but it is certainly true that EVs do currently cost more to insure. According to this (slightly less hysterical) article, about 25% more:

Electric vehicle repair costs revealed versus ICE equivalent

The cost differences between repairing an electric vehicle (EV) versus an internal combustion engine (ICE) equivalent have been highlighted in a new report.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

And the blame for that, i laid largely at the feet of the crash repair industry, who really need to upskill. Also, Tesla need to take part of the blame, with their "gigacastings". In order to save cost and weight, they're making larger and larger chunks of the car as huge one-piece castings, which, of course, shoves up the cost of repairing minor crash damage. A lesson that I imagine they'll learn soon.

 

[Avocet]

I don't doubt that the powers that be would be happy that the greatly increased cost of EV ownership means that car ownership is out of reach to many. However, they've provided the impoverished mainly younger members of society with affordable EVs. They're called scooters.

It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing, there. For costs to come down, manufacturing volumes need to go up. But with so many naysayers and doom mongers out there, holding it back, we'll have to wait a bit longer. That said, purchase prices are steadily falling, and there are now some half-decent EVs out there for not much more than the equivalent ICE. Of course, once the high purchase price has been overcome, the running costs are absolutely minimal, so the overall cost of ownership isn't that bad.

 

[robinbanks]

Rather a one-sided 'conversation' today!
I wouldn't bother to discuss with a staunch pro-EV member, certainly one who cannot see two sides to a situation.

Pro EV member who patiently makes reasonable and logical counter to every sensationalist BS post thrown into the fray? None of the anti EV "conversation" members show any signs of being able to see two sides either, and to a worse degree

Honestly, the number of different colours, fonts and styles used in the cover pictures of the videos DNJ is posting are statement enough that they're just clickbait crap desperate for likes and subscribes so their no-talent criers can get some more dollars. I don't even need to watch them to know they're the online equivalent of those neon coloured "closing down everything must go" signs in the tat shop in town, that has been closing down for about 12 years now

 

[DiyNutJob]

those neon coloured "closing down everything must go" signs in the tat shop in town, that has been closing down for about 12 years now

People can't afford stuff nowadays. Closing down obviously takes longer. EVs being expensive makes them a dead end. No click baiting, just pure reason.