EV are they worth it?

[Avocet]

Last time I can remember difficulty getting fuel was the tanker strike almost quarter of a century ago.

So with electricity, we never have power cuts??

You don't remember the 2021 fuel shortages then?

Or the 2007 fuel protests?

(Mrs Avocet was still working back then, and as a doctor, needed special access to limited amounts of fuel. The rest of us had to do without).

Frankly, the supply of electricity isn't perfect where I live (in the sticks), but it's no worse than the supply of fuel. We get short outages (usually less than a minute), in Winter storms, but generally the supply of electricty is pretty good.

 

[Avocet]

If one has an EV with a 200 mile range, and one is going to do 300 miles, then to do that 200 miles will take 4 to 5 hours, so 3 kW is an extra 10 kW hours plus it would mean power not used for cab heater, it does depend on how power hungry the car is of course, but when one knows one has a long trip ahead it can extend the range by quite a bit. And running at a fixed output it can run very efficiently.

OK with larger cars may need to be 5 kW, but point is not being big enough to drive the car with, but simply a range extender, and also a method of recharging when no recharging point can be found, same idea of have a spare gallon of petrol.


1978–79 was when I remember the Winter of discontent that's over 40 years ago, however as a result I will not entertain heat pumps, and I have a back up battery which can be charged from the solar panels.

I don't think it will get that bad again, but we have seen loss of power in some areas for a day or two, I remember one petrol station had a moped with the wheel rubbing on the wheel of the petrol pump to deliver petrol, and others were using hand cranked pumps, which have now long gone, so really today no electric means no petrol as well.

Even seen shops stop trading during a power cut as they could not work the tills, so likely could not buy candles even if in stock.

Not for me. I did a 408 mile trip the other day and charged for a grand total of 3/4 of an hour - but they were stops I would have made anyway, even in an ICE. If I really wanted a range extender for long journeys, I have a 4kW Machine Mart generator I could chuck it, and a couple of gallons of petrol in the boot for long journeys and not have to bother with lugging it around with me or most of the trips I do. A hybrid with a range extender is basically exactly that. Most of a time, you're just carting an ICE engine, fuel tank, exhaust and cooling system around with you, that you simply don't need.

 

[robinbanks]

The technology may be there, but is the product i.e. a portable and affordable unit of which there are more than 100 in the whole country ?

So you're saying we, as a nation, should have waited until EVs were fully and completely ready to take over from ICE vehicles in every single edge case any number of petrolhead naysayers could come up with, before introducing them?

Nothing humans do develops like that. Everything is incremental and necessity is the mother of invention

The only way many will adopt EVs is reluctantly in the face of common sense

Some may not at all, common sense being absurdly named. I've watched people slowly make their way into shops I've worked at, gasping at every step and breathlessly ask for 20 B&H.

"I'm going to burn hydrocarbons til it kills me" would be fine, and would quite quickly resolve the problem if the exhaust fumes could be confined to solely the air breathed by the burner rather than sharing it amongst everyone, asthmatic children etc included

If EVs are so good, you wouldn't need to ban ICEs to force people into them

If dialling down racism in football was such an amazing idea, we wouldn't need advertising campaigns to promote it and penalties for those who don't

People just inherently do independent reseearch about the best possible way to do something, cast off all their traditions and put all their efforts into switching to the better, more morally and socially conscionable way, right? Legislation has never had to push anyone to do anything..

I will not entertain heat pumps

Following on from what I wrote above, I read that as "I will not entertain putting strong efforts into adapting my house so it is well insulated and draught free, thereby becoming such that a low level energy consumer like a heat pump is adequate to heat to my needs"..

Go a little further and you can do away with a heating system.

As population rises everyone will have to find ways of doing less with more, rather than all striving to live like the average westerner, which would need something like 4 planet earths to provide all the necessary resources to sustain the burn rate

 

[norseman]

In this weather, for 3/4 tank, I'd get 150 miles easy enough - maybe £175 if I'm careful. (Funny enough, I'm going to Newcastle this afternoon, from North West Cumbria)! I'll top it up to 100% just before I set off though. Should be able to get there and back without using a public charger, as it's 100 miles each way. Funny enough, with an EV it's the opposite of an ICE. It does of course last longer doing short, low speed runs!

It's an 80 kwH battery so I'd expect it to power the whole house for several days, if full! We use about 20kWh a day (I'm out in the sticks with no gas). However, although the battery can supply 250kW to the electric motor when I boot it for short periods (105kW indefinitely), the charging cable from the car, is only good for about 11kW. The cable from the consumer unit to the charger, probably less than that. I don't know what other hardware changes (to either the car or the house) would be needed. The car can't do it at all, right now. Some newer EVs can do about 2kW.

I have a petrol generator for when the power goes off. (Which does happen, occasionally in winter). It's 4kW and will do the fridges and freezer, some lighting, wi-fi, central heating pump, etc. It's a cheap Chinese Machine Mart one, and I haven't tried charging the car from it. We have friends on a smallholding a few miles away with a 5kW wind turbine and about 8kW of solar. I'm sure they'd let me charge the car off-grid there for a bit, if we got really stuck, once I'd run out of petrol for the genny!

We have things in common 'A' when it comes to prep. I live in a semi-rural location & have a battery/600w inverter to power the combi boiler if the grid goes down plus a 3.2kw, also Chinese built geni. that will eventually be wired into the home to power the 'essentials' Designed in the US it has an electric start & will run on petrol or LPG, the latter is what the boiler runs on.

The main difference between us is that you are an advocate of EV's whereas I am not, but that is our choice

 

[Avocet]

We have things in common 'A' when it comes to prep. I live in a semi-rural location & have a battery/600w inverter to power the combi boiler if the grid goes down plus a 3.2kw, also Chinese built geni. that will eventually be wired into the home to power the 'essentials' Designed in the US it has an electric start & will run on petrol or LPG, the latter is what the boiler runs on.

The main difference between us is that you are an advocate of EV's whereas I am not, but that is our choice

We do indeed. I'm sure you're similar, but I he geographic isolation of where I live, makes most people round here, practical and pretty self-sufficient. That's one of the things I find weirdest about the anti-EV folk. It's SO much easier to make your own electricity than your own petrol or diesel, so why not do it, and further increase your independence?! EVs are an absolute gift to "preppers" - or so you'd have thought!

 

[norseman]

We do indeed. I'm sure you're similar, but I he geographic isolation of where I live, makes most people round here, practical and pretty self-sufficient. That's one of the things I find weirdest about the anti-EV folk. It's SO much easier to make your own electricity than your own petrol or diesel, so why not do it, and further increase your independence?! EVs are an absolute gift to "preppers" - or so you'd have thought!

That's an interesting angle on the EV vs ICE debate, however low annual mileage & financial constraints mean that I'm not about to jump ship.
There is no way I could ever justify the cost & my preference for classic vehicles (not just cars) is the deciding factor.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

If dialling down racism in football was such an amazing idea, we wouldn't need advertising campaigns to promote it and penalties for those who don't

Yet another great example of brain washing and government thought control, ie. conditioning people and trying to get them to accept and even like something that would logically be deeply unpopular - the flooding of you country with millions of people from alien cultures who will clash with your indigenous culture and squeeze to the limits the resources you rely on.

Yes, that's a great parallel, two unpopular government policies - forced EVs and forced mass migration. Both needing legislation and unending advertising to try to convince people to dispense with reason and sense and accept things against their own interests

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Even seen shops stop trading during a power cut as they could not work the tills, so likely could not buy candles even if in stock.

Another reason I always carry cash.

 

[Avocet]

That's an interesting angle on the EV vs ICE debate, however low annual mileage & financial constraints mean that I'm not about to jump ship.
There is no way I could ever justify the cost & my preference for classic vehicles (not just cars) is the deciding factor.

"low annual mileage"? You mentioned driving to somewhere in Eastern Europe, didn't you?!

As far as financial constraints go, there's no way I'd be buying an EV if I was spending my own money. I've never spent more than £1500 on a car in my life! Even with the much-publicised depreciation, it's going to be a very long time before EVs are down to the sort of prices I typically go for.

I'm also very fond of my old Alfa, so yeah, I get the whole "classic car" thing. However, the way I look at it, if I can do the bulk of my "everyday" miles in an EV, that's not only doing the environment a couple of favours, but it's making the oil last longer for the few thousand miles a year that the Alfa does!

 

[Avocet]

Yet another great example of brain washing ang government thought control, ie. conditioning people and trying to get them to accept and even like something that would logically be deeply unpopular - the flooding of you country with millions of people from alien cultures who will clash with your indigenous culture and squeeze to the limits the resources you rely on.

It's been happening for many thousands of years - Romans, Vikings, Saxons Jews, and it's not going to stop, regardless who you vote for, I'm afraid. Our current pathetic excuse for a government has managed to get non-EU migration up to a record high, since it's been in power! Norway is about as close to a monoculture as you can get, and not exactly short on "resources", yet you still get Far Right racist nutters like Anders Breivik going on the rampage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik​

Yes, that's a great parallel, two unpopular government policies - forced EVs and forced mass migration. Both needing legislation and unending advertising to try to convince people to dispense with reason and sense and accept things against their own interests

Sorry, but "forced mass migration needing legislation"? WTF?! Last time I can recall any government "forcing" migration was the Empire Windrush! Every other bit of legislation has been to try (completely unsuccessfully, as it happens) to REDUCE it!

And by the way, there have been shed-loads of pieces of government legislation over the years, that have been deeply unpopular, but were the right thing to do. Or maybe you think sending women and children down mines and up chimneys was a good thing? The Clean Air Act was strongly opposed by some, in the 1950s, because they wanted to keep their coal fires, yet you never hear people saying "oh, I miss those pea-souper fogs, bad enough to kill a few people"!

 

[norseman]

"low annual mileage"? You mentioned driving to somewhere in Eastern Europe, didn't you?!

As far as financial constraints go, there's no way I'd be buying an EV if I was spending my own money. I've never spent more than £1500 on a car in my life! Even with the much-publicised depreciation, it's going to be a very long time before EVs are down to the sort of prices I typically go for.

I'm also very fond of my old Alfa, so yeah, I get the whole "classic car" thing. However, the way I look at it, if I can do the bulk of my "everyday" miles in an EV, that's not only doing the environment a couple of favours, but it's making the oil last longer for the few thousand miles a year that the Alfa does!

I don't recall mentioning Eastern Europe, but have driven to France ,Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Sweden & Norway, but that was decades ago & most of those trips was at the wheel of various WW2 military trucks.

My old RR is less used than your Alfa & rarely exceeds 1000m PA these days .. subsequently it will probably be moved on next year maybe to finance another WW2 machine, as after a gap in ownership for 18 years I've developed withdrawal symptoms.

 

[chainsaw_masochist]

I don't recall mentioning Eastern Europe, but have driven to France ,Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Sweden & Norway, but that was decades ago & most of those trips was at the wheel of various WW2 military trucks.

My old RR is less used than your Alfa & rarely exceeds 1000m PA these days .. subsequently it will probably be moved on next year maybe to finance another WW2 machine, as after a gap in ownership for 18 years I've developed withdrawal symptoms.

Have you chosen this type of vehicle in order that it is ULEZ exempt or do you just want to invade Poland?

 

[Avocet]

I don't recall mentioning Eastern Europe, but have driven to France ,Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Sweden & Norway, but that was decades ago & most of those trips was at the wheel of various WW2 military trucks.

My old RR is less used than your Alfa & rarely exceeds 1000m PA these days .. subsequently it will probably be moved on next year maybe to finance another WW2 machine, as after a gap in ownership for 18 years I've developed withdrawal symptoms.

Sorry! I was getting you muddled-up with Reagan & Carter!

 

[norseman]

Have you chosen this type of vehicle in order that it is ULEZ exempt or do you just want to invade Poland?

1) bit pricy on petrol, just to get that exemption.
2) Seem to recall that the last person to do that didn't win many popularity contests.

 

[norseman]

Sorry! I was getting you muddled-up with Reagan & Carter!

I'm a founder-member of the muddled-up club.