Flueless Gas Fire..... controversy please

[Careful_Bodger]

Hi - it looks like it has been a while since any questions were asked here about flueless gas fires, and I'd like to tap into the collective view.

In my immediate circle I have had a very diverse response to the suggestion of installing a decorative secondary heating appliance in my lounge.

This ranges from my local Corgi gas bloke (who I trust) saying he has never installed one so far, but is willing to do it, says they are getting more popular, and is not aware of any problems (other than, say, increased condensation). On the other hand the local heating appliance store saying they don't do them, 'because of problems'. (One problem may, of course, be that they don't stock them.) On the third hand (!) a work colleague said that they are dangerous (sic) and 'no reputable installer would go near them'.

Anyway - I would like to know what the current view on this forum is. Note that I am aware of the HSE website publications (e.g. http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrhtm/rr023.htm and http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr127.pdf and the proposed research on the subject by the [groan] ODPM http://www.rmd.odpm.gov.uk/project.asp?intProjectID=11535

So - please let me know what you think and why.

TIA,
CB

 

[Agile]

My view is that you have already done a lot of research and there is little more we can tell you.

You have said nothing about your property and the likelyhood of condensation problems. That is the issue!

Neither have you said why you want to have one! If you have central heating and feel cold either turn it up or add a new radiator.

Sometimes people get fixated on things with no good reason!

Tony Glazier

 

[chrishutt]

As a flueless appliance, it will require permanent ventilation to room (100 square cms ?) which could be very unwelcome. Otherwise I'd just be concerned about condensation (but only if general ventilation was poor) and whether catalyst can be relied on long term?

 

[ChrisR]

SOme of the fires only need 50cm sq, see applliance instructions.
The report does show how Carbon Monoxide levels do leap if the catalyst is absent (or, presumably, present but ineffective, possibly due to "poisoning"). I think I would want some visible assurance that the fire was operating safely. In other words is it obvious if something is wrong?

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

I fitted one about 18 months ago. The guy had researched everything and like yourself knew all the pitfalls. He even had the necessary ventilation in place before I turned up at the job. I fitted it to the letter of the instructions and have no qualms about it. It made a long blank wall look pretty without having to mess about with flued alternatives so the horse was right for the course in my opinion

Six weeks ago I was asked to fit another I mulled through the instructions and pointed out the pitfalls but the client decided to take it back to the shop as she didnt want to look at 2 air vents and wouldnt have been happy with the output.

My opinion is that they are safe enough so long as the user is given the right instructions by the installer and the things like servicing, making sure air vents are kept clear and what to look out for when probs arise etc are properly understood. If they are fitted correctly with ASD's and have the CE mark theres no problem in my view.
If you were to ask me if I would have one in my house my answer would be :- Only as a last resort!

 

[Agile]

The trouble is as an installer, you give the client all the information beforehand, fit it and give her all the operating instructions.

A week later she phones you up and complains that there is condensation on all her windows and a cold draught from the ventilation!

You cannot win! So why bother!

Tony Glazier

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

Fitted two to date, a Burley for a customer and a B&Q focal point one in my own house, no problems with either, quite happy to fit them as long as fitted to installation instructions, with all the *******s about the environment they should be compulsory in all house's which are big enough to fit them as they are 100% efficient, mine kicks out plenty of heat

 

[ollski]

I don't think any big company touches them with a bargepole yet as they haven't been adequately safety checked and tested and I personally don't fancy being a guinea pig.

 

[Noraslad]

There have been loads of safety checks on them and they are popular in the states I believe.
After reading test reports I always tend to put the vent at high level now if at all possible.
Certainly a viable option for anyone without a flue.

Is yours a hole in the wall one pedantic.

Was told a couple of days ago that they have taken it off the market, haven't got it confirmed yet though.

 

[ollski]

There have been loads of safety checks on them and they are popular in the states I believe.
After reading test reports I always tend to put the vent at high level now if at all possible.
Certainly a viable option for anyone without a flue.

Is yours a hole in the wall one pedantic.

Was told a couple of days ago that they have taken it off the market, haven't got it confirmed yet though.

I know BG won't touch them until the catalytic converters have been more rigorously tested.

 

[Diyisfun]

Agile

Neither have you said why you want to have one! If you have central heating and feel cold either turn it up or add a new radiator.

I think supplementary heating is used in spring / autumn or on a cold night watching tv, you don’t want the whole house heated just to move a nip from the air.
Its also a focal point.

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

I incorrectly and knowingly fitted a brass floor vent, a 100cm2 is a 100cm2 however it gets it, I now they dont like them because they can get covered up but mine is behind the telly, if I sell I will have to fit a wall one before moving, I like to look at it on winter nights, it looks great with fireplace and as diyisfun said it's a focal point in the room and why have all the ch on just to take the chill out of the lounge, I have had no condensation problems at all.

 

[chrishutt]

PVM wrote

I..... fitted a brass floor vent, ...... I know they don't like them because they can get covered up but mine is behind the telly, I like to look at it on winter nights, it looks great with fireplace and ..... it's a focal point

And I thought I was a sad case.

 

[Paul Barker]

I haven't fitted one yet so haven't seen any instructions, they weren't part of my acs training, and my old boss (ex BG 25 years) had never come across one, so please don't think this is a stupid question. On these I'm a layman.

In the frequent cases where I ID someones fire for spillage (my present ID rate is about 50%, I'm the grim reaper of gas fires) can one site one in the fire place and use the chimney as the ventilation?

 

[Noraslad]

I'm the grim reaper of gas fires) can one site one in the fire place and use the chimney as the ventilation

Short answer NO

If your going to fit in an existing fireplace you have to block the chimney.

Have you joined ARGI yet Paul here