Heating suddenly stopped! - coal boiler working though
- Thread starter Busybloke
- Start date
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right - all done (pump off) drained a bucket load - came out quite clean. Checked tank and it's dropped about the same amount (ball tied off).
I haven't untied the ball just yet - is it worth me adding some Furnox at this point?
I haven't untied the ball just yet - is it worth me adding some Furnox at this point?
probably not. If the F&E is topping up, then bleeding the rads will not let air into them.
You can add a desludger if you want. there might be a sludge blockage.
However, if water is not circulating, the chemical will not circulate to the point of blockage. Only pipes which show signs of getting warm have circulation. You have said that none of the pipes leaving the boiler are warm, so there must be some reason for non-circulation.
If you hold a strong magnet to the copper pipes, it will be attracted at any point where there is a collection of sludge. Blockages most often occur at the point where the Feed pipe Tees onto the main circulating pipes. however, your feed pipe is not blocked (as demonstrated just now).
Since you appear to have a working cold feed; and since you do not appear to have a water shortage, and since the pump is spinning, I don't know the cause of non-circulation. You say the pump is warm. If it was jammed it would be very hot.
Check that all the valves are open, especially any that you have recently touched. Sometimes valves break so that the handle does not operate them.
Look for any signs of electrically operated valves on the pipes. I can't see from your photo what those two things are that you disconnected so a close up photo will help.
In the absence of any other ideas, I think the failure to circulate must be either
1) You have done something wrong when disconnecting the controls
2) by chance, some other problem has occurred shortly after your changes.
You could try reconnecting all the things that you disconnected.
Sometimes pumps fail so that although they spin they do not pump water. I am surprised though that you don't get any gravity feed up any of the pipes. You might take the pump off, test the pump valves, and see if you can see the vanes are not broken and are moving with the spindle (don't run it without water)
I am just guessing now. With luck someone more skilled will think of something. I am just a householder. start asking friends and neighbours for a recommended heating engineer to come and look at it. Buy some electric heaters.
You can add a desludger if you want. there might be a sludge blockage.
However, if water is not circulating, the chemical will not circulate to the point of blockage. Only pipes which show signs of getting warm have circulation. You have said that none of the pipes leaving the boiler are warm, so there must be some reason for non-circulation.
If you hold a strong magnet to the copper pipes, it will be attracted at any point where there is a collection of sludge. Blockages most often occur at the point where the Feed pipe Tees onto the main circulating pipes. however, your feed pipe is not blocked (as demonstrated just now).
Since you appear to have a working cold feed; and since you do not appear to have a water shortage, and since the pump is spinning, I don't know the cause of non-circulation. You say the pump is warm. If it was jammed it would be very hot.
Check that all the valves are open, especially any that you have recently touched. Sometimes valves break so that the handle does not operate them.
Look for any signs of electrically operated valves on the pipes. I can't see from your photo what those two things are that you disconnected so a close up photo will help.
In the absence of any other ideas, I think the failure to circulate must be either
1) You have done something wrong when disconnecting the controls
2) by chance, some other problem has occurred shortly after your changes.
You could try reconnecting all the things that you disconnected.
Sometimes pumps fail so that although they spin they do not pump water. I am surprised though that you don't get any gravity feed up any of the pipes. You might take the pump off, test the pump valves, and see if you can see the vanes are not broken and are moving with the spindle (don't run it without water)
I am just guessing now. With luck someone more skilled will think of something. I am just a householder. start asking friends and neighbours for a recommended heating engineer to come and look at it. Buy some electric heaters.
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Many thanks - I'll go and add the feroxide and then I can close the loft up and leave that (after untie ing the ball). I'll have a look at all the valves and re-bleed the radiators and see what I get - I
'll add some more pics of the thermostats / timer / wiring on those pipes they are 2 Honeywell T70 stats. According to the boiler manufacturer - one is on the outward flow and set to 85. This should switch the pump on if the temperature of that pipe reaches 85 degrees so as to disipate it around the system. The other, which is on the return is set to 45 to switch the pump off if the temperature drops to that so as to save energy and not pump cold air around the system.
I'll post back later.
Thanks a huge amount with your help so far -
'll add some more pics of the thermostats / timer / wiring on those pipes they are 2 Honeywell T70 stats. According to the boiler manufacturer - one is on the outward flow and set to 85. This should switch the pump on if the temperature of that pipe reaches 85 degrees so as to disipate it around the system. The other, which is on the return is set to 45 to switch the pump off if the temperature drops to that so as to save energy and not pump cold air around the system.
I'll post back later.
Thanks a huge amount with your help so far -
after adding the desludger, you have to stir it in, and drain a couple of buckets out at the bottom so that the contents of the F&E are drawn down.
Bale out any scale and sludge out of the F&E and sponge it clean first - you don't want that drawn down into the boiler. if you disturb the brown mud at the bottom of the F&E it may take weeks to settle out again, so scoop it all out.
Bale out any scale and sludge out of the F&E and sponge it clean first - you don't want that drawn down into the boiler. if you disturb the brown mud at the bottom of the F&E it may take weeks to settle out again, so scoop it all out.
Right
drained the system - bled the rads - mixed in the cleaner - drained off some black water and topped up the tank. I've also balanced the rad settings to hopefully give more heat downstairs.
Gonna start up the pump. Will let you know later / tomorrow what happens. Can then look at the stats and electric side of things perhaps.
drained the system - bled the rads - mixed in the cleaner - drained off some black water and topped up the tank. I've also balanced the rad settings to hopefully give more heat downstairs.
Gonna start up the pump. Will let you know later / tomorrow what happens. Can then look at the stats and electric side of things perhaps.
I use Sentinel X400 which breaks up the black sediment. X400 is a non-aggressive cleaner and can be left in the system for weeks without causing any damage.
I expect there will be a similar Fernox product though I don't know what it's called.
Don't get the acid cleaners, DS40 or DS3. they dissolve limescale (which is great) but may cause leaks if you have an old system that is not sound.
http://www.fernox.com/index.php?cccpage=ps_radiators
it might be Fernox F3 that you need, but read the literature carefuly. I think what you need is a non-acidic, non-aggressive chemical that breaks down black sludge so that is becomes suspended in the circulating water.
Beware of cheap "own-brand" chemicals. fernox and sentinel are the market leaders.
I expect there will be a similar Fernox product though I don't know what it's called.
Don't get the acid cleaners, DS40 or DS3. they dissolve limescale (which is great) but may cause leaks if you have an old system that is not sound.
http://www.fernox.com/index.php?cccpage=ps_radiators
it might be Fernox F3 that you need, but read the literature carefuly. I think what you need is a non-acidic, non-aggressive chemical that breaks down black sludge so that is becomes suspended in the circulating water.
Beware of cheap "own-brand" chemicals. fernox and sentinel are the market leaders.
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