heatline c24 intermittant hot water..help

[gobert]

Hi all

I have the above boiler which has a fault that is just dragging and dragging...getting rediculaous now.

hot water every say 20 secs on and off..(boikler cuts in n out)

so far water sensor change..secondary heater exchange, (was visualy great condition no sign in and around of build up of any type) tryed new c.h sensor no joy, checked water pump..all fine...

hot water works with c.h sensor removed but of cause at low/med temp..any higher and boiler will cut out due to heat....

Now were on to a blockage in main exchange or a pcb fault..really would love some pointers..cant keep paying for someone to try different things..heatline cost me main bulk, buy saying to swap exchange..

p.s My engineer finds it hard to beleive that theres a blockage when no signs in secondary (unless broken integral part in exchange), so he leans toward pcb.. heatline say flush ..theres a flow restriction, as boiler is doing its job and cuts out at 79c after a few mins even with c.h removed !!!!

 

[picasso]

has your engineer checked the burner pressure?

 

[gobert]

dont think so..but boiler operates fine if kept to a lower heat with c.h sensor removed..

a fair few people beleive its a flow problem (build up .e. a foriegn body or breakage in main heater exchange, not usuall secondary xchng as that sbeen replaced) or outside chance pcb..!!!!

pcb would be a easy way to test but non refundable..so if wrong another £50 down the drain)

is £100 reasonable for a boiler flush witha cleaning product

 

[mehran]

mmm, were about in the country do you live?

does the boiler only do this in hot water mode?

when you say "water sensor" do you mean the flow sensor or the temp sensor?

what speed is the pump set too?(there is 3 speeds)

how old is it? and do you know how dirty the system is?

also how to you know it is cutting out at 79c?

not to criticise your repair guy but a pcb sounds very unlikely

btw the burner pressure would be about the first thing that is checked.

 

[gobert]

no idea on how dirty, but he said after 4 years the system (boiler end)looks great v clean..(hence he finds it hard to believe main is blocked). not paying for a full clean..no way..not till boiler is defo fixed.

it was h.w thermister i think.

it does this in all modes..just running on hot water mode at mo due to no c.h sensor..and its not too cold yet...

iwhen prob first arrived,tested central heating it worked still, but took its time to warm up, boiler was still cutting in and out regardless.

engineer tested boiler temp as soon as it reached 79 ish it cut out ..was just a test to see if it was safe to leave me with boiler half working with sensor unpluged.(heatline says it defaults at 79)

I have some one coming to clean main exchange out as it all seemes to point to a blockage in flow. hench c.h sensor picking up the rapid increase in temp then cutting out, it cools then fires up ..so on and so on.

i noticed small droped in water temp intermitantly over a period of say 5 weeks leading to boiler cutting in and out,poss the blockage starting to rear its ugly head.. a pcb or sensor dont gradually fail, they ever work or dont.

 

[mehran]

OK, if he really did un-plug the main temperature sensor then the boiler would not work at all. i hope your repair guy have not by-pass the over heat stat as that would be classed as unsafe.

also uncliping the main temp sensor of the pipe is not very smart either and would consider it to be unsafe as well.

 

[Agile]

If I understand what you are saying there is no Ch sensor?

Its not possible to diagnose faults with bits of the boiler missing!

Replace the CH sensor and then test.

Tony

 

[mehran]

the thing is agile, if it was not there the boiler would just lock-out straight away and not even try to fire.

i think overheat stat been taken out or the ch sensor which is just clipped on the outlet of the main heat exchanger have been un-clipped... ether way not a good idea.

 

[gobert]

Firstly it the c.h sensor on left hand said of main exchange that has been replaced,tested (when in situ) and made no difference..

The only reason its been left un cliped is we are NOT using central heating and the boiler only gives us hot water with it out, insteasd of hot water intermitent every 20 secs!!
we aint going 2 weeks with no hot water..its safe (not recommended though) engineer tested boiler to make shure it cuts out if it exceeded 79oC ..it did ...

the c.h sensor i believe is picking up the quicker than normal temp increse ...WE BELEIVE DUE TO FLOW RESTRICTION. !!!! so we have left it un clipped. so we can have warm water no probs.....

IF the water temp is turned up the boiler lasts about a 1 to 2 mins before it cuts out at around 79oC as it should... (AGAIN WITH SENSOR LEFT OUT)


The confusion is .......if its flow prob why is boiler so clean on inspection / relace of secondary exchange , yet there's a blockage in main exchange ..could it be a foreign body in it or flakes of main exchange blocking it up....(manafacture fault)....

On the flip..couple people say its pcb.

again there was a very small intermitent loss of heat in the month before boiler went down totaly..

ALso could it be the filter on the feed thats blocked (heatline experts will know where it is i asume) asked the question to enginner and he said no its got nothing to do with heating the water!!

 

[mehran]

it is not safe to leave that temperature sensor uncliped as it is there to measure the primary fluid temperature. it commonly called the CH sensor but it is vital for the safe working for both central heating and hot water.

by removing it from the pipe the boiler has no way of knowing how hot the water is in the main heat exchanger. you are running the risk of damaging plastic parts if not already done so.

 

[Agile]

This kind of problem can also be achieved by a serious mis setting of the gas valve.

However, it would be unusual for a "fault" like this to suddenly occur on a boiler without intervention. However a competent engineer would have checked all the gas settings on his first ( and only ) visit and diagnosed the problem immediately, after all its only a boiler!

Although asked you have not said where you live and its not clear to me exactly what you expect or want to happen next.

It is clear to me though that your "engineer" has failed to identify the fault in spite of apparently having to ask the manufacturers telephone clerks as he was unable to identify the fault himself.

Not a very nice situation to be in. But its surprisingly common!

There is also a psychological difficulty as well because some engineers imagine that anyone with a very cheap boiler does not expect to pay the going rate to have it repaired. I expect people with Lada cars had that problem too, I could imagine the smile at the garage when the Lada drives up!

We charge a fixed repair rate regardless of the boiler type or make, Heatline, Keston or Viessmann. Its the same amount of work although owners of cheap boilers often think that their repairs should be as cheap as their boiler!

Tony

 

[gobert]

Sorry its the portsmouth area

Would a incorrect gas setting happen over a cause of say 6 weeks? and no intervention.. i would of thought it would cause all orts of havoc..

My aim is to get the boiler fixed i think thats fair to say!!!

you say argile "one visit" what if parts were needed that automatically requires two visits.

due to a few potential failings of recent engineer i aim hoping to get more opinnions or come across someone who has had this fault before with the c24 heatline.. poss save a little too,

so far no one has come up with a definitave answer,
(i know its very hard over a forum,with just discriptions) so to say the last engineer was a total flop would be wrong.. as no one seems to know...

It does always come back to a flow problem or pcb.......

first time a gas setting has been mentioned...

It seems now a case of trying the possiblities cheapest thing first...i think thats fare thing to try when money and time have already been wasted...

i have some one flushing main exchange out next week, will get them to look into the other areas i.e gas settings...

regards sensor....could be dangerous but enginner was happy to leave it like that for a short period of time at LOW temp so we have warm water...
If it was soo dangerous whats the point of a the limit stat (or whater its called) it cuts out before any damage can be done i thought.....
all the lights on the front dont go more than third light norm around 2nd red light only ,so that must suggest the temp is around poss 45ish oC

If you turn temp up to say 80% then within a couple mins..cuts out..that must suggest its all working correctly but the boiler cant pass hot water quick enough so over heats..according to heatline and my engineer..could that be a valid reason???

its that or called water im afraid

 

[Agile]

due to a few potential failings of recent engineer i aim hoping to get more opinnions or come across someone who has had this fault before with the c24 heatline.. poss save a little too,

so far no one has come up with a definitave answer,
(i know its very hard over a forum,with just discriptions) so to say the last engineer was a total flop would be wrong.. as no one seems to know...

You dont need "opinions"! You need a competent engineer who can diagnose the fault. That usually means someone on site who can do the tests on the boiler and diagnose the fault. Thats not possible over the internet or telephone as it needs hands on involvement.

There are many tests to be done, gas settings, thermal survey in CH and in DHW, electrical measurements, visual inspections of components etc.

Your "engineer" was unable to diagnose the fault even though he pretends thats his job! I hope you did not pay him because he does not deserve to get paid as he is unable to do the required job.

Heatline used to have independent service agents round the country. You are not so far from Southampton where there is a competent engineer who gives advice here.

British Gas does a fixed price repair for about £200. Of course you will say thats half the cost of the boiler! Of course it is but the answer might be that the boiler was cheaply fitted by someone who does not know how they work or how to repair them.

I would never fit anything that I did not understand and was unable to repair.

Tony

 

[gobert]

i do agree

looking back on it £200 notes would of been great if it fixed fault.spent 230 all in so far...but would that of inc parts!!

the engineer said i could of looked further in to it..but said i could spend hour n hours trying to find fault..and still not git anywhere..because the two main faults symptons etc he tryed failed.

In your opinion argile..what do you beleive fault may be also.. also what action would you advise me to go for..i.e pay a fixed price or go for a main exchange flush with different engineer for around £50 inc chemicals..
I will defo ask him to spend a bit of time on investigation into other causes if the flush dont work..

...kricky how many enginners would i have to use till it gets fixed. lol .i think i need to find a heatline expert or pay a fixed price...

 

[Agile]

i do agree

i.e pay a fixed price or go for a main exchange flush with different engineer for around £50 inc chemicals..

I will defo ask him to spend a bit of time on investigation into other causes if the flush dont work.

...kricky how many enginners would i have to use till it gets fixed. lol .i think i need to find a heatline expert or pay a fixed price...

No competent engineer would ever clean a heat exchanger for just £50 ! About £100-£150 would be more appropriate!

The BG price is totally inclusive of all parts and labour but might exclude any problems caused by dirt. I see it as rather expensive for the average repair as 90% of the repairs that I do cost less than £130.

But its very good value if selected when a specific expensive part is needed but thats usually on difficult boilers or when the parts are expensive. Yours is a normal boiler with normal parts prices.

The answer is to get a competent engineer who can diagnose faults and repair them! Thats easier said than done I know.

You could try to ask Heatline for details of their local service agent but make sure you ask his charges first. Its totally wrong to charge for investigating if he cannot identify the fault correctly.

I charge a fixed price diagnostic fee. If it ever occured that I could not diagnose the fault then I would not make any charge but so far thats never happened.

Twice in the last five years its taken me over three hours to find the fault but I can assure you they were very difficult to trace and unexpected!

A customer today told me that she was impressed because I could diagnose most faults over the telephone. If I have got a good description of the symptoms then I usually know exactly what I am going to find before I arrive. Others take a few minutes on site.

I cannot give you specific advice on what you should do. I would not have got into the situation of paying a "parts changer" for replacing anything that did not fix the problem.

Tony