Installing a gas hob

[paddyalan]

Hi this is my first ever post to this site and I have to say the info I have obtained is great.

Just bought a house and I am in the process of installing a new kitchen. I have moved a boiler already and plumbed it back in and it has gone very well.

The problem I have is the installation of the gas hob. I have no idea where to obtain the gas fittings to do the job or in fact which fittings to use.

The hob has the usual BSP tapered connector on it. I would imagine that the connector to the gas main would have to be an elbow with an end feed or compression fit on it to the pipe and a threaded connection on the other end of the elbow. Would you use a slip coupling to achieve this fit and where would you obtain this connector.

I have a habit of trying to obtain all the information before I attempt any job. I'm actually an electrician by trade but after the success I have had with redoing the water and the boiler gas I have no problem with plumbing the hob, just don't know what connector to use.

Thanks for any help.

AC

 

[ZenStalinist]

With gas, if you have even the slightest doubt, I'd call a professional. The fact you don't know what connector to use shows potential gaps in knowledge. I say call a CORGI registered plumber.

If you'd read all of the correct literature relating to how to install gas equipment, then you'd know what connector to use. Hence, I deduce that you haven't read up on it properly, and you may well miss some other important step, or do something incorrectly when installing the hob.

I know it might seem simple, but even though you're an electrician, and have knowledge in other fields, it is not a good idea to DIY gas.

 

[paddyalan]

Thanks for the words,

Whilst not wanting to sound like an expert, I have done a fair amount of plumbing work including servicing and reinstalling a boiler in my house as well as re doing the water feeds in the house so I am capable of achieving good results and doing the job to the proper standard.

Whilst reinstalling the boiler and re routing the gas main I have tested the supply using a manometer at all stages before commisioning the install. I have tested by way of a pressure drop test and then went over all the joints with leak detection spray just to make sure. As an extra measure I have installed a co detector on the ceiling in the room where the boiler is installed. So as you can see I can do a quality job.

I am very confident that I can achieve a gas tight end feed, solder ring or compression fit joint.

Now after my justification!

I have seen some real cobbled up jobs that really haven't made me happy, even one connection that leaked and they had to call out a different plumber to fix the problem, and so I wish to obtain the views of other people preferably people who do this particular job a lot. I can go down the route of cobbling something up in the same manner but there must be particular fittings available.

My local plumbers merchant tried to fob me off by saying thats how they all do it! I found it unbelievable that they would use that many joints! I was even told by them that the use of a cooker hose was acceptable. My understanding is that this is OK for free standing but not for fixed install above the oven.

So as you can see I just need to know that the methods I have been given for the install are correct before I proceed. My intention overall once the work is done is to have the whole install inspected by a Corgi registered guy and get him to certify the install. Firstly to put my wifes mind at rest and secondly to ensure the install complys with the current standards.

I understand your concerns, as an IEE 16th Edition Qualified spark I have the same reservations about people working on electricity but if they obtain or attempt to obtain the information to do the job right doesn't that show they have the initiative to do the job right?

Thanks for you comments
Alan C.

 

[AdamW]

The fitting of gas hobs has been covered in the "Plumbing" forum here before. I would urge you to try a search and read all the relevant posts. You would be surprised what you pick up doing this.

I was even told by them that the use of a cooker hose was acceptable. My understanding is that this is OK for free standing but not for fixed install above the oven.

If the handbook says you can use a cooker hose, then it is OK. As far as I know, most are meant to be plumbed with copper pipe the whole way.

Would you use a slip coupling to achieve this fit

Not sure a slip coupling would be a good idea with gas When I asked about hob fitting, a few plumbers who responded mentioned that they use soft copper pipe. This is the stuff you buy as a roll instead of a straight length. Very malleable and flexible.

 

[fitter]

I have 4 CORGI fitters that I can use to do my gas work (depends on who has the time).

They all use 15mm pipe with a stop cock, I believe that a hob has to be connected with rigid pipework, because of space limitations if the hob is going above an oven they always use end feed elbows etc, I don't think that there would be enough room to fit hose, even if that was permited.

 

[paddyalan]

Thanks guys this was the type of constructive info I was looking for

I have been informed that the use of an elbow with a fiber washer on the hob connection side and either a 15mm compression fit or a 15mm endfeed will be fine to use, but the use of other connections is not advisable.

It is only acceptable to use a hose where the temperature is not going to exceed 70oC. You are probably right that the hose wouldn't fit.

Thanks for the comments guys

Alan C.

 

[corgiboy]

It is illegal to work on any gas installation unless you are a corgi registered gas installer. a stop cock is a water fitting and not a gas fitting.

 

[red40]

It is illegal to work on any gas installation unless you are a corgi registered gas installer

That isn't what the Gas saafety Regs say corgiboy!

The GSR 1998 regulation 3(1) say, No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storgae vessel unless he is competent to do so

it is Regulation 3(3) that goes on to say about being an employer or self employed and that is when you have to be a proved by a class of person approved by the HSE (i.e CORGI)

The guidance from ACOP guide L56 specifically says that you must be competent, which includes DIYers and those performing favours for family and friends they will all need to have a required leveln of competence.

Competence :- depends on a combination of training and experience and is also combined with assessemnt and re-assessment every 5 years by the ACS scheme which all gas fitters have to do to prove cmpetence.

And although failure to observe the code is not in its self an offence it will be used in any criminal proceedings.

But back to paddy's job, technically I doubt you have done an ACS scheme alan so in the eyes of the beholder you are not competent, but then agin neither is a gas fitter who has trained with British Gas for thirty years and hasn't renewed his ACS card.

A hob is usually fitted with either a 1/2" male or female iron fitting use a 1/2" male or female connector to capillary joint (some hobs will allow 1/4" pipe (10mm) which is fairly flexible. Preferably in the cupbaord next to the hob you will need to fit an isolation valve, connect it up and you should be on your way.

Dont forget the distances from combustible materials are correct, ventilation is adequate if other appliances are present, pipe sizing is correct and you have the manufacturers instructions

 

[paddyalan]

Thanks Red,

I was really going to get back as soon as Corgiboy posted his reply and see if I can get a real discussion going. But I really was to busy reading the corgi regs and installing my gas hob.

I'm actually a fully trained and fully qualified electrician, with a degree in electronics and a good standing in mechanical design and fitting. I may not have an acs or corgi cert but I do understand rules and regs which is why the job is now done to the correct corgi standard and spec. Tested and all!

I'm not saying that I am more, or less competent than a Corgi gas fitter but I have researched and followed the specs laid down by Corgi regarding installation and test. I would not have undertaken the job did I not feel I was capable of completing the job, safely and to spec.

Now back to the fact that as an electrician I am aware that my actions could kill another (much quicker than gas might I add), so to put your mind at rest: One BSP B 1/2" Female connector with a Fiber washer (supplied by the manufacturer) fitted at the base of the fitting, this was screwed onto the hob connector hand tight and then 3/4 further turn (PTFE tape is optional as the seal is made by the fiber washer). I have then connected up the pipe using an endfeed /capillary joint to make the connection to the gas main. Thats the easy bit done. To purge the gas pipe of all air (meter type E6, 5 x Volume of meter) open all windows first and inform all occupants that a gas purge is about to be performed, (As an electrician I am aware that there are some people who don't listen, so I switched off the electricity supply as well, just to make sure). Next using a manometer purchased from Screwfix I connected this to the gas main slowly brought the gas pressure up to 22mb and switched the gas off again, left this for approx an hour came back and checked to find there was no reduction in gas pressure. Finally I checked all joints with leak detection spray. Hopefully this satisfy's everyones requirements.

Just to wind up the corgi boys even more, I did move my boiler as well 2 feet to the left of where it was and it works a treat, I have installed a combined gas leak/ CO detector just to make sure and it looks like I have done the job right.

The advice I would give is that, yeah do gas installation, but only if you can read and understand specs and test requirements, as this is how you will gain competency, its not enough to ask your local plumbers merchant, they aren't gonna get you out of the s**t if you stuff up. As somewone who specs major engineering projects every day, I'm fairly confident, all I can say is rtfm if you are not sure and do lots of research before you try anything whether that is gas, electrical or mechanical. If you really aren't sure after rtfm, don't even attempt it matey, you will be putting yourself and others at risk.

I know of the loop holes in the gas fitting law and unfortunately until these loopholes are fixed there are going to be a lot of people doing there own gas fitting, whether compitent or not. I will be making it my responsability to make sure that people do electrical diy projects safely by telling people how to do the job safely and making them understand why the job is done that way. Surely it would make more sense for a good corgi registered plumber to give there opinions on how to do plumbing jobs safely to make sure it is done right, its not as if its gonna do you out of any work and at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that you have given correct guidence to an individual who without your help may have done the job anyway and inadvertently killed somone in the process. Its not enough these days to say "you shouldn't do it if your not corgi registered". They might decide to do it anyway and do it wrong and be living next door to you!

Any comments are welcome!

Al.

Any coments are welcome

 

[red40]

LOL paddy

The only thing I see you have missed off the installtion instruction is the isolation valve for the hob. A normal in-line isolation gas tap will suffice.

I recently read that CORGI in their wisdom are now asking for fitting paperwork with every appliance installed and they are also considering getting the suppliers (retailers) to send paperwork to them (CORGI) after every appliance they sell has been fitted. Even to a suggestion that you have to prove with ID where you live if you go to buy an appliance.

The only reason I can see for the current brief guidelines of 'competence' is that the manufacturers of gas appliances know full well what a limitation of selling appliances to the general public would have. Mainly the reduction in vast profits because Joe public wouldn't be able to purchase them..................restrictive business I think its called.

 

[paddyalan]

Ain't that the truth!

I did miss out the isolation valve in the description, my apologies to all. However I did actually fit one, I did notice however the bloody price of them 5 quid, if that doesn't put you off installing your gas hob nothing will.

Right now I have well and truly wound up the handful of Corgi Guys on the forum, can anyone tell me how to erect a bouncy castle and what regulations this is based on .

thanks for all the assistance I received in the making of my Heinz baked beans.

Al.

 

[Slogger]

so u think your qualified to fit gas yet u placed a co meter on the ceiling ? did u not read the mi instructions

not many if any will tell u that is where to fit it

and using LDF when you already did a tightness test ? why was it to see where that 6 mb drop was coming from

your a bodger pure and simple dont do any gas work let others live


flues are for life not just to save money

 

[paddyalan]

Oh dear, I have upset some people,

so u think your qualified to fit gas yet u placed a co meter on the ceiling ? did u not read the mi instructions

I did read the instructions, rtfm, I have already mentioned that. On the ceiling is not the place to put these, in some cases. I'm not a qualified gas fitter and I'm not a bodger either! You guys spend as much time becoming fitters as I have to become an electrician!

I take it with the comments you made that you are a registered fitter! You as a fitter will know that there are many ways to install a CO detector and you are limited in two ways.

Just as a general overview,

from http://www.carbon-monoxide-poisoning.com/howdetectorswork.html

Installation

The battery operated type is easier to install and can be placed anywhere in the house.
The electric type can only be installed near an outlet or hard wiring.

Did I mention I had a degree in electronics and most definitely understand how these devices work, I would suggest you read up on you gas flow principles, CO is a gas and does flow in a particular way. The battery type you can place anywhere in the house and requires prolonged exposure upto 200 mins at a particular ppm in some cases before it will sound. The one I purchased was from toolstation order code 11691. Very good even though I say so myself. I dare say I will never find out how good it really is though.

and using LDF when you already did a tightness test ? why was it to see where that 6 mb drop was coming from

Its a fair point I suppose, but as I say I like to be thorough, didn't have to just wanted to. I am aware there are many ways to test a gas install and by using LDF (Leak Detection Fluid) as well doing a tightness (Pressure drop Test) I was ensuring the installation was sound if there is anything wrong with being thorough then it must be true, I am a bodger!

your a bodger pure and simple dont do any gas work let others live

Now thats just not nice is it

If I was in any doubt that the job was done incorrectly I would be the first one to be turning off the Gas supply.

Oh and did I mention, a mate of mine who works for BG has since inspected the entire install and signed it off with a gas safety cert, I have had this done as a house insurance requirement. He complained about one thing, the crooked socket on the wall (Bit embarrassing really). After checking all my solder joints, pipe runs and fitting and flu connection as well as repeating all the tests I did, he regarded my work as a nice job!

I think its speaks for itself don't you, I can get you his corgi registration number as well if you like so you can see he is a corgi fitter, I checked this already by checking his number online!

There are loopholes so help people to do the job right or tell them why they shouldn't attempt it. Don't just call someone a bodger without first knowing the facts and why they have done a job in a particular way. I think there are a few gas fitters on this forum who will agree with why I have done the install in the way I have and why I have tested it the way I have. One test can fail, two tests might not.

Thanks for your comments though.

Al.

 

[profdiy]

This has bee a most interesting to read, came across this discussion whilst checking on different copper pipework connection, use and correct methods to make jpints/ connection (gas as well). as I am upgrading our central heating.

Even though I have installed Central heating before I make a point on checking/ researching every job I do (not just plumbing). I was a apprentice trained electrician before moving into electronics then computers.

I would point you all to the http://www.ukcopperboard.co.uk/ a very useful resource for information.

Doing any job, people should research the particular job carefully. Methods, building reg, etc continually change and being up to speed is very important. Being qualified is one things, knowing everything there is to know about a particular subject (weather in the trade or not) is another.

I have come across time and time again, information given by professionals and trades people being inaccurate because they are too embarrassed to admit they need to research the answer or just check. But the result of this can be have such a knock on effect and in some cases been disastrous.

I agree with paddyalans research into installing his HOB. Researching this job has resulted in it being installed competently.

I understand the Corgi's engineers concerns but being so dismissive of someones capability because they asked what appears to be a simple question isn't a indication of the more complex issues with gas installation already researched by paddyalan and that with was simply the final answer to that research of the overall job !!!.

One should remember that even professionals (in any job), who have done the job for years can make serious mistakes through being incompetent !!!!!

 

[Slogger]

do me a favour and f8*K OFF with the english teacher retoric or what ever it is your spouting your not qualidfied to touch gas end of story

r u a social or financial refugee m8 ? stick to your own area of work instead of trying to save a few ( and i mean a few quid )


wat a joker