Intergas...but which...

[bernardgreen]

Tube in tube? Is that what the Intergas hex is?

You know that the Intergas is not tube in tube. The Ferroli is the one that is tube in tube.
Intergas filed their patent application in 2014. Ferroli filed their application in 2009 for tube in tube with the outer tube having an ovoid section



There is an Intergas application dated 2009 for an exchanger consisting of two separate tubes in a pressure moulded aluminium block.

There is an earlier Ferroli application which relates to tube in tube construction but where the outer tube has a circular cross section. No doubt the later change to an ovoid section increased the efficiency of the combustion to water exchange

From this it does apear that Ferroli might have been ahead of Intergas in the development of a combi boiler that did not need a secondary heat exchanger.

That said patents are worded to confuse the opposition while making sure the patent agents can understand and protect the "invention" that is being patented so the real and accurate history is difficult to obtain from even the most detailed search of patents.

 

[Dan Robinson]

So how come the Intergas HEX has been around for more than 20 years?

And why are you blathering on about tube in tube HEX's.

You know that the Intergas is not tube in tube. The Ferroli is the one that is tube in tube.

Are you being purposefully senile? I have said many times, the Intergas HEX is different to the others. It is different for a very good reason. Why don't you shuffle off and Google who has patented (or attempted to) the Balance Flue. The Google your way through the boiler manuals to see how long they were around before the patent.

 

[bernardgreen]

If the Intergas hex has been around for twenty years and is so good then why didn't other manufacturers adopt it before the patent was issued. Or maybe there was a patent issued 20 years ago.

It is different for a very good reason.

And that very good reason is ........ ? ( I am sure Intergas Training Department came up with a good reason or is that reason commercially sensitive and not to be revealed. )

And why are you blathering on about tube in tube HEX's.

because they are efficient heat exchangers that do not have the thermal mass of a block of moulded aluminium that has to be heated before any heat reaches the water flowing through the embedded tubes.

I could ask why you are blathering on about Intergas being the best option. But that could be for commercially sensitive reasons

 

[Dan Robinson]

I could ask why you are blathering on about Intergas being the best option.

Experience.

And that very good reason is ..

They were less reliable and next to impossible to descale/repair. The Intergas HEX is bomb proof. Shoulds it scale up it is easily dealt with. One of my guys did one yesterday in fact. I am due to do one on Tuesday. They're 9 and 10 years old respectively, and have only had an expansion vessel apiece in that time. They have plenty of life left in them yet.

why didn't other manufacturers adopt it before the patent was issued

Why don't you toddle off and find out. I care not a schit.

 

[snes]

I made the mistake/oversight of not fitting a Combimate in front of my son's Intergas. Also, the hot water setting was far too high. Combine that with a very hard water area, and the inevitable happened.

Descaling was simplicity itself, as you Dan of course know. I hooked up a Kamco, ran the chemical through, and watched the scale literally flush away. Just 2 connections, boiler still on the wall, job done.

Doesn't Bernard drivel on?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Doesn't Bernard drivel on?

It's incessant. It really is. Can you imagine having to sit a dinner with him. I have images of a grey heard Arnold Rimmer.

 

[bernardgreen]

Descaling was simplicity itself, as you Dan of course know. I hooked up a Kamco, ran the chemical through, and watched the scale literally flush away. Just 2 connections, boiler still on the wall, job done.

Come on, why doesn't the same process work on a stainless steel tube ( Ferroli ) as it does on a copper tube ( Intergas ).

 

[Dan Robinson]

Is it parallel pass?

 

[Dan Robinson]

But, scale is the leak of a Ferrolli's problems.

 

[dilalio]

I made the mistake/oversight of not fitting a Combimate in front of my son's Intergas.

Thanks Snes ... another "round tuit" job I should've done but haven't, on my own system!

 

[hard-work]

From this it does apear that Ferroli might have been ahead of Intergas in the development of a combi boiler that did not need a secondary heat exchanger.

Bernard, the Ferroli does have a higher hot water flow rate than the Intergas with the same gas rate. Tube in tube is not new, however Ferroli have obviously gone the extra yard and done something better than the competitors here squeezing out a greater hot water flow rate. I would like to see a Ferroli with the coil in the flue, like the ATAG, extracting even more heat from the flue gasses. I wonder what the hot water flow rate would be like then. Interesting.

 

[hard-work]

Descaling was simplicity itself, as you Dan of course know. I hooked up a Kamco, ran the chemical through, and watched the scale literally flush away. Just 2 connections, boiler still on the wall, job done.

Interesting. Did you have to cut into the pipework to install the Kamco? Or did you fit the connections on installation all ready to de-scale. As de-scaling will become necessary at some time. It sounds sensible to have the connections installed ready What size connections does the Kamco take?

 

[snes]

Just had to undo a couple of compression connectors. But Kamco have really thought this through and the kit comes with a myriad of different size/type of connectors.

I was most impressed.

 

[dilalio]

It sounds sensible to have the connections installed ready What size connections does the Kamco take?

There are various adaptors on the Kamco hoses but we always fit washing machine T's into the system pipework (capped of course) for later flushing, or for flushing as part of the install. Flushing being done whilst boiler is being hung and piped up.

 

[hard-work]

Just had to undo a couple of compression connectors. But Kamco have really thought this through and the kit comes with a myriad of different size/type of connectors.

I was most impressed.

Thanks. I was thinking about the fitting of connections all ready on installation, so it is a simple and quick matter of screwing in the Kamco. What would you advise when doing this?