Is Plumber at Fault?

[0wen]

I employed a plumber to fit a new bath tub, he did so and cut the old bath tub pip and connected the new one.

A few days later and the toilet blocked up, it had never done before but plumber could not clear block so called drains people, they cleared it but 4days later it was blocked again, so they cleared it and put a camera down the pipe.

It turns out the fitter had pushed the pipe into the main waste pipe so it was right accross the main flow causing the blockage.

I now have a £300 bill from the drains people to clear it twice and investigate the issue with CCTV.

Since the waste pipe and the point the bath pipe connect is behind the boxed in toilet, its not easy to see what had been done, so is the plumber at fault? or is it the pipe thats been there for 10 years at fault?

Who pays the £300 bill?

 

[Charnwood]

Based on what you have been told is the cause, the plumber is most definitely to blame.
Getting him to admit it?!?!

Get a report from the drain people to show him, ask if he will re-imburse you. If not, I see a court case coming on.

 

[gas_man_gaz]

did you contact the fitter before getting in the drain company?

 

[DP]

What IF, there was a stub in the bath waste that has pushed further into the line when the plumber inserted a new stub into the socket? Fail to see how he could be blamed if that is the case.

If I were the householder, I would give the man a bell and talk to him explaining what has taken place. By al means go to court, but be prepared to take a loss if you lose as the plumber might have a good answer. Forget the court, talk to the plumber

 

[lightning]

Why does everyone thinks courts are the answer, they have no power to do jack.

 

[Agile]

If, and thats a big if, the plumber had really pushed the pipe all the way in then I would say that he is responsible.

He had the opportunity to investigate and correct!

BUT the drain company did not do the first job properly as they did not identify the real problem. So they were partly to blame for having to come back.

So as the Judge, based on the stated facts only, I would find the drain co party to blame and would reduce their price to about £180 to be paid by the plumber.

Tony

 

[Beerlover]

When waste pipe is exposed long term to foul water it takes on a blackish stain. Remove the pipe and look at the end. If the stain is less than 2" long, the plumber did it. If it is longer ie 5" it was there all along.

 

[Agile]

That is technically correct but if this matter was going to court then either the plumber would produce a photo of the pipe to be used as his defence or the householder would have the same photo but produced by his expert witness.

Courts do not make technical decisions and any technical evidence is provided and supported by expert witnesses who usually charge about £500-£600 per day or per case ( if a simple one ). The costs of the expert can be claimed by the owner if he brought the case.

Very unfairly, if the plumber calls an expert witness in his defence he isn't usually able to claim those costs within that hearing if the owner loses the case. Thats why those who can afford to bring cases with little chance of success sometimes do so just to cause financial hardship to the other side or to reach a settlement which is not deserved based on the facts. He could bring another case against the owner to claim them though.

In my view this is not a clearcut case because the drain co. did not exercise due diligence on their first visit as explained above.

Tony

 

[expertgasman]

The problem here is that we are only privy to one side of the argument. DID the plumber fit a new pipe, or did he connect to the existing?

I don't do this work, thank God, but I thought that a boss would have a ridge to stop the pipe going past the fitting - or am I wrong? So, if that is the case, and if he pushed the pipe into it, and visibility was restricted, he would assume that when the pipe stopped it was at the back of the fitting. If the fitting was "faulty" ie no "stop" ,is he still to blame?

Discuss.

 

[Agile]

Most types do.

But with existing installations there are all sorts of bodges found.

Even so its up to the person doing the work to ensure its fitted so that it will work properly and not cause any problem.

He does not seem very good because he was called to see the problem and was unable to see what the problem was or identify his apparent mistake.

Nor did the drain co either on their first visit !

Tony

 

[alan999]

If the plumber fitted the bath waste and it was working and it was not causing any other problems on completion so far so good. If he was called back because the toilet later blocked and the bath waste still worked and the waste connection was unaccessible its difficult to say he did anything wrong. It may depend on whether or not he said he would use the existing waste pipe and if you had said it had worked well for x number of years when he priced the job.
I think the idea of calling out the drains company and the possibility of passing the bill onto him should have been discussed at that time. He may have said he would remove the boxed in toilet, check the waste connection and make a charge if the connection was already faulty but that could have been negotiated.
Assuming the existing junction was as fault, you could argue he should have checked it anyway and that may be the basis for a claim.
I reckon if you talked to him now about all of this you could still come to some arrangement but I dont think he is fully responsible.

 

[7777777]

if it go,s to a county court you will lose for these reasons the judges are out of there depth in maters like this ,,, although thay will have took advise,,but they will be easly be fooled by an half resonable plumber you will also find that these cases are judged on PROBERBILLITY,,, so you say he did,, he says he did not,,, put another way you have say 10 replys here from plumbers who are uncertain ,,, for a civel servent who will have little or any knollage of diy ,, he will have to go with the plumber

 

[Agile]

I think you underestimate the intelligence and education of judges!

In any case anyone bring a case would need to bring an expert witness and the success of the case will largely turn on the effectiveness of that expert.

Tony

 

[Agile]

if it go,s to a county court you will lose for these reasons the judges are out of there depth in maters like this ,,, although thay will have took advise,,but they will be easly be fooled by an half resonable plumber you will also find that these cases are judged on PROBERBILLITY,,, so you say he did,, he says he did not,,, put another way you have say 10 replys here from plumbers who are uncertain ,,, for a civel servent who will have little or any knollage of diy ,, he will have to go with the plumber

10 spelling mistakes in there. As for grammar!

I would hope any judge would not have a single mistake!

 

[0wen]

Hi,

Thanks for your replies, I think the plumber is a nice guy but when I pointed out it was blocked he did not look at it and I asked if he had put anything down and he said no. I said I would try plunging it and he left so did not offer to help.

I called back that evening and said it had not cleard he still did not say he would look so I said I would get a drains person out.

I understand he made a silly mistake but I am no plumber and I know that a the waste pipe should not move back and forth and I should not assume it is fixed with a stopper at the end.

It has cost me £300 to fix and its cost me 2days of trying to fix resove the issue when I got someone in specificaly as I did not have the time to do it myself. I did my kitchen my self but was too busy to do this.

I will speak to him but I think he did make an incorrect assumption which caused the block and when I told him it blocked twice he did not think it might be the waste pip so I am not sure that I should pay the £300 bill on top of paying him to do the work....

Do that seem unfair?