Is there actually any reason for tamper protection?

[PaulUszak]

I'm trying to ascertain whether it's worth while putting lots of effort into wired tamper protection.

These days, there seems to be ever more complex means of tamper loop monitoring. We had simple closed loop circuits. Then we had end of line resistors. Then someone added shunt resistors. Top of the line banking systems might even use individually addressable digital detectors that log into a base station. How long will it be before the alarm companies start selling encrypted ip connected detectors running over cat6 wiring? I read that sex sells and encrypted PIRs seem awfully sexy to me, but perhaps that's just me

Is any of it worth while? Your typical burglar is pretty stupid. Their tools are hammer and spanner, not multi meter and laser. Is there anything wrong with a plain old closed loop tamper? Or no tamper at all? So, my actual question to all the professionals reading this is: Have any of you ever heard of someone deliberately TAMPERing with a domestic customer's burglar alarm? I exclude mice, squirrels and Russian agents.

 

[sparkymarka]

Unfortunately most of us on here do it for a living and have to install to standards ....

 

[bernardgreen]

Have any of you ever heard of someone deliberately TAMPERing with a domestic customer's burglar alarm?

The very first incident that I got involved with was a tobaconist shop where the alarm did not detect the front door being open. The cable to the door switch had been tampered with some time when the shop was open and the shop keeper distracted. That was in 1966 and a very crude system.

Incidents of tampering with simple wireless alarm systems are increasing as some of the basic systems can be put out of action when the intruder is still 50 yards from the house.

 

[JohnD]

domestic customer

I see your key words.

14 year olds and smack heads seldom have anything more advanced than a bent screwdriver or a piece of string.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Edited as requested by Bernard Green. Not give away ways to overcome tamper monitoring.

 

[bernardgreen]

Mike.... don't give too much away or those 14 year olds and crack heads will be going "up market".

 

[JohnD]

they can't read.

 

[ross94]

The Tamper circuit is useful because
1. It detects the bad guys or "customers" interfering with the system and possibly disabling it.
2. It gives you the satisfaction that all the wiring to your alarm system is intact, lets say there was a damaged cable to a door contact with just the alarm loop without the tamper connected the "customer" would never know about the fault until they try to set the system.

 

[PaulUszak]

Unfortunately most of us on here do it for a living and have to install to standards ....

Thank you. That's a very honest answer which I totally understand.

 

[PaulUszak]

I know that it's tempting to explain the whys and wherefores of tamper monitoring techniques, but I'm trying to ascertain if anyone has anecdotal evidence of them being circumvented in a domestic setting? I'm hoping to hear if it's ever happened, not how it theoretically might.

P.S. I'm not fishing for how to do it, just if it's ever done at all...

 

[secureiam]

teenagers around here have been better equipped from what I have heard.

as for tampers being tampered with Yes it happens.

Its the same is it worth having my alarm serviced every year. Yes it is.

I had a call to home that was broken into, now the alarm hadn't been tampered with but it had been tested before they broke in.
They activated 2 shocks on the windows in the kitchen which was round the back of the property and couldn't be seen so well do to the high panel fencing and building arrangements.

When I came to the property I could see the external bell box didn't appear to be working, inside I could see that the two shock sensors had been activated, the window that was broken into didn't have a shock sensor. although they would have been picked up by a DT and other detectors for the rooms they went into.

now it turns out the noise made from the internal siren couldn't really be heard outside the building and the neighbours are relatively nosey.

Turns out over 18 months ago they had some building work done and the external sounder hadn't been reconnected properly.

if the system had been serviced they may not have been so unlucky as they would have known the alarm was working properly and raised the alarm.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

TBH, I have not come across any cases where someone may actually go to the length of trying to bypass or tamper with domestic alarms, it will have to be an inside job, someone who knows valuables are stored in a particular house, and he may have access to the property from time to time and and it could be a friend or a distance relative, a trusted worker, service man, or a domestic servant, who then observes and studies all the installation and where PIRs and other door or window contacts are located, whether it is a wireless system, or wired, he may know the wealth of the owner, they may try to tamper with a system while it is unarmed, like place a card behind PIR sensor inside the case, owners not noticing it etc, where there is a will there is a way as they say, so if one was bent on raiding a house they know the owners may be asleep or on holidays, they may have carried out their homework before hand. Ordinarily, no one tries to tamper or bypass domestic alarms, and how can you also trust alarm engineers themselves if they knew the wealth stored in a property and they may tamper circuits to come back later or send someone else in to do the raid.

From when I used to do Fire Alarm Service and Installation, (which is in very similar concept to burglar alarms) we had a few cases where smoke detectors used to go missing, and panel would register a fault, but the care taker or the building Manager wouldn't have a clue apart from silencing the alarm/fault buzzer, they wouldn't go around to check if someone had removed a detector, this was back in early 80s when people were also allowed to smoke in offices and factories, so some workers would remove detectors to stop a smoke alarm going off, as there are often a dozen or so detectors on one zone, so they would call us to rectify fault and we would have to check our installation drawings with the office to confirm how many detectors were used on a particular job site and location, often you would notice it straight away a head was missing, removed by someone working in that building.

Personally i would be more happy if I knew my alarm system is totally fool proof, and not vulnerable to tamper easily, but then again I would put secret cameras when leaving house to strangers in my absence, with monitoring facilities through mobile phone at any time from anywhere.

 

[PaulUszak]

If the system had been serviced

Isn't this more of a servicing /performing a bell test issue? Tamper detection clearly wouldn't catch an (officially) disconnected sounder.

 

[secureiam]

I understand, where your coming from, but tampers have been designed for systems and evolved and are important functions, I would rather be with them than without them.

what I don't understand is

worth while putting lots of effort into wired tamper protection

a lot of effort?

The point I was getting at is people don't get it serviced or don't wire up the tampers just the alarm circuits and doing so increases the risk of the system not working when they need it to.

if you don't wire in your tampers then you link them out at the panel or program them off (depends on panel).

the age of the system components determines on how it would behave with no power to the bell from the panel or from the bells back up, modern grade 3 bells have power fault monitoring for example.

have to ask your self if its worth monitoring the power or checking your leds are still on at the bell box and does it still work.

tampers always on systems installed by me. I think its an important feature to have

 

[Europlex]

I'm trying to ascertain whether it's worth while putting lots of effort into wired tamper protection.

Please explain the above. I'm trying to find out what I have been doing wrong for the last 40yrs. "Lots of effort"?

Tamper circuits are an integral part of any alarm system, take them away and ..................