Issue with cold water tank in loft - repeat plumber visit

[henryjones]

Hi all

I had water coming through the bedroom ceiling on Tuesday night, and the plumber came on Wednesday. He found that the overflow pipe from the cold water storage was detached, so he reattached it and charged me £50 + VAT for the callout, which is fair enough.

However, last night I discovered that lots of water is now coming out through the overflow pipe, so although the issue regarding the water going through the ceiling is fixed, the underlying issue of the tank overflowing is not fixed.

The plumber is making a repeat visit tonight, but will I be expected to pay him again for a new callout? We haven't discussed cost yet for this visit, so I'm not sure what to expect, or what my rights are.

Many thanks!

 

[Belboz]

All depends on what he agreed to fix I suppose.

If he attended to repair the pipe and did so then I suppose he could claim he fixed the fault he attended for.

However, I would suggest that any plumber would have looked at the bigger picture and seen that there was also an issue with the ball valve/inlet valve.

That being said, if the tank had emptied so he could fix the loose pipe, he may not have been aware of the overflow issue when the tank re-filled as he had gone by then (??)

Whilst not knowing the detail of your setup, I would assume that the inlet valve is knackered or there is an issue with the float setup thus the incoming water is not shutting off properly causing the tank to overfill and discharge into the overflow pipe.

Both of those are pretty straightforward for any plumber to resolve and shouldn't cost too much in parts or labour.

Since he is making a repeat visit tonight, can I ask if that is something you arranged on his previous callout or have you had to call him again? If it is the latter then he may charge you for another callout.

The experts on here will be able to advise you better but seems strange IMHO that he didn't fix the WHOLE thing at the time unless he didn't realise there was an issue with the valve/float. Seems odd as the fact that the water level had clearly reached the overflow pipe outlet would indicate an overfill issue.

 

[Bosswhite]

If he was any good I would have thought he would have checked the ball valve and water level at the same time,
there was a reason why the water was flowing from the dislodged overflow pipe, the water had risen above the overflow level.

At least he should have warned you the ball valve needed checking after he repaired the overflow.

 

[henryjones]

Thanks for the response.

At the time he came, it was not overflowing, and having been really hot up there all day, the water that had overflowed onto the loft floor and through the ceiling had all dried up by then.

However, he knew that the reason for the leak was the fact that it had overflowed, and I'm not aware that he made any effort to investigate the actual overflow. Maybe it was my bad for not bringing it up, but I'm not really an expert on these things, so I wasn't sure if it is even normal for it to overflow a bit. It was only when I saw loads of water spilling down on to the patio outside that I realised things were not normal.

In terms of why I called him out on Wednesday, it was not for any specific job, e.g. fixing the pipe, I just called him to investigate and fix the cause of the water coming through the ceiling.

 

[Agile]

If you had called me then I would either have come on the same evening you found the leak or advised you what to do to stop the water leaking.

When I came I would have investigated the CAUSE of the high water levels as well as attaching the over flow pipe.

But then I would have charged a bit more than he did, namely £84 !

It seems pretty lax to me for anyone to come and not fully investigate but as said that may depend on what was discussed or asked for.

I have this nagging feeling that he may have intentionally only dealt with the pipe knowing you would be calling him back a second time with a second charge! That is what often happens when they dont charge enough to do the job properly!

Tony

 

[Belboz]

Tony,

I agree and I was perhaps being kind in saying he may not have realised the issue with the overflow and just done a 'job and off'.

In my (non-expert) opinion though, the mere fact the water levels in the tank had clearly reached the overflow outlet points to an issue with the water shutting off.

As you know, that can sometimes just be a simple adjustment to the float, a replacement piston (dependant on valve type) or replacement of the whole unit.

All straightforward jobs for even a novice plumber.

Maybe that's why he was so 'cheap'.

OP - Speak to the plumber before he does the work and see what he says. He may well waive the second callout fee given the circumstances.

 

[henryjones]

Ouch, I hope that's not the case, Agile. This guy has been fairly good in the past, we got him from several recommendations on a local forum, and we've used him twice before without problem. I'd have thought it wouldn't be worth his while risking his reputation by doing a scam like that, but who knows.

I don't know if it's relevant, but it was actually a young guy who came out, not the actual plumber I arranged the deal with.

Anyway, I guess the bottom line is that if he demands another £50 payment I have no choice but to pay it, and then I can just look for another plumber in future?

 

[Belboz]

henryjones,

you may be able to see what the issue is if you can stand the heat!!

have you got the time to go into the loft?

 

[Bosswhite]

I would go for 50/50 on the payment, the job was not up to a recognised plumbers standard.

 

[henryjones]

I'm at work at the moment, the plumber is due to come round later this afternoon so I wasn't planning to go back until shortly before that.

But if you can advise what to look for in the tank, maybe I can go and have a check before he comes.

 

[Agile]

I try to be gentle about other plumbers on this forum as it can upset others.

But my personal opinion is that it was very cowboyish NOT to do the job properly. It was a very simple apprentice level job!

My advice is to call the boss and say that you were very disappointed to find that he had not fixed the problem which was causing the overflow on his original visit. Hopefully he will agree and not charge a full £60 to solve it.

Based on my charging regime then another £24 would be appropriate plus a new ball valve at £8 if required.

But I have to say that in London only charging £60 is hardly realistic for doing the job properly unless you are in a country area of London and very close to him.

Tony

 

[Belboz]

henryjones,

I don't know your exact setup and my advice is subject to the numerous learned experts on here....

Sorry if this is in too simple language.

If you look at the water tank then you will normally have a pipe coming up towards the top of the tank on the outside. This is your incoming water which fills the tank up.

Inside the tank, there will be a valve which is attached through the tank to the incoming water pipe.

Inside the tank, there will be a thin metal rod coming from that valve and it will have a ball-shaped float at the other end.

What should happen is that, as the water fills the tank, the float rises to a point where it shuts the valve when the tank is full. That cuts off the incoming water. When the tank starts to empty (e.g. by flushing the toilet) the float drops thus allowing the valve to let in more water to re-fill the tank.

With me so far??

 

[henryjones]

Yes, with you so far, thanks.

 

[Belboz]

On one side of the tank there will be an outlet which is attached to the overflow pipe. This outlet is usually towards the very top of the tank.

If the valve fails to shut off then the water level will rise to a point where it discharges via the overflow outlet. This is to ensure the tank doesn't just keep filling then overflow and flood the house.

When the tank is at fill level, the inlet valve should be closed and therefore not letting any more water in.

With the tank full, check to see if water is still coming through the valve into the tank.

Still with me?

 

[Belboz]

You can check if the valve closes fully if you gently raise the rod. If the valve doesn't close fully then there is an issue with the valve and incoming water is getting in when it should have been shut off by the float. That could mean just replacing a part inside the valve or the whole unit. Whilst I am confident enough to have done this, for you it's best left to the plumber.

However, if the valve DOES shut fully then it may be an issue with the float or float setting. Check the float has not got water in it (if it has then it becomes heavier thus meaning it needs more volume of water to rise and shut the valve)

If the float is fine, you can slightly bend the rod to make the valve close with a lower water level in the tank. Sometimes this will resolve the problem.

If all is working properly, the float should fully close the valve so that the incoming water is fully shut off at a point where the level of water inside the tank is lower than the overflow outlet.

The valve not fully shutting off indicates an issue with the valve.

The valve not shutting off until the point where the water level is entering the overflow outlet indicates an issue with the float.

Please take further advice from the experts on here. I am only an amateur but I am confident enough to sort minor issues such as these (my tank has an old Portsmouth valve!]

Apologies to all the professionals on here.

Hopefully, all will be sorted later at minimum cost to you.

B