Keep Being asked to sign off other peoples installs !

[kjacko]

As a diyer, who would never touch gas and as a consumer who has employed both corgi registered fitters to do work and non corgi registered guys also, here's my 2 penneth.

I've had loads of fitters tell me the corgi registration isn't worth a jot. I've seen shoddy work carried out by corgi fitters too.
cashjob seems to have said (imho) that he does the work and gets a corgi guy to check and certify it. Lets face it, it could easily be professional suicide if the corgi guy just signed the cert without even checking it. He'd be risking his career and reputation if he didn't.
I spoke to the council only last week and they told me that if i did my own sparky work, then i could either call them out to check it and certify it or get a certified sparky to do the same. So what's the difference with the way cashjob does it? He probably doesn't want to get certified due to rip-off costs.
Is there possibly a few peeved off corgi guys here who've paid a small fortune to register and are losing out jobs to non-corgi guys who may well be just as competent but charge less because they're not trying to recoup the outlay for their registration? I think so.

I'm not taking sides at all really. I can understand it from both angles, but with these arguments the registered guys do tend to close ranks. A certificate doesn't make you a better person or fitter, it just covers your arse for the fortune you pay.
Do a search on here, you'll find a few instance of corgi-fitters being slated as incompetent.
I'm not qualified at what i do for a living. I've studied and am still studying, but as yet i've not taken any exams to certify me. Why? Can't afford to right now! Doesn't make me less knowledgeable or able than someone who had the cash to pay for the exams.

 

[CortinaV8]

"I'm not qualified at what i do for a living. I've studied and am still studying, but as yet i've not taken any exams to certify me. Why? Can't afford to right now! Doesn't make me less knowledgeable or able than someone who had the cash to pay for the exams."

Damn straight, although I dont have much chance of killing someone by making an error on a database!

 

[kjacko]

lol, yes there is always that.
However, i'd get killed if i made an error in one!

I understand the point your making but it doesn't mean non-registered fitters are incompetent does it?
A friend of mine ceased his registration about 2 years ago now, a) cos he was doing mainly commercial water plumbing, b) cos he simply said it wasn't worth the money and it was apparently getting more expensive.
He said that even if he started doing more gas, he'd do the work then get one of his colleagues to certify it.
Think about it. One day he's fully certified to install a boiler no probs. Next day his registration runs out and he decides not to renew it for whatever reason and he's no longer certified to install boilers. He's not suddenly dumbed-down and useless because of it. Its just against regulations. And as we all know, we don't ALL follow regulations ALL the time.

 

[CortinaV8]

I guess you are in the same game as myself then?

Nope far from it, I understand your point entirely, people just like to be elite and get all high and mighty about thier qualifications, but lets be honest here you hardly need to write a thesis to join one of these bodys.

 

[obiplumbkinobi]

Ok, there can be a touch of high and mighty but whats wrong with pride in your work.

The point is, it makes a bit of mockery of those that are registered i.e. Whats the point if Joe Bloggs is going to fit a gas appliance and then gets a gas registered bloke to sign it off! It's almost going backwards!

It sets a president, less people will register as a result and quality and competence (not to mention safety) will go down hill.

What about liability insurance, professional development,

The system is not perfect, but it is there for a reason.

And sure there are dodgy RGI's out there, just like there are dodgy doctors out there.

 

[Deleted member 105431]

you pays your money you takes your chance. Any gas fitter that signs off other peoples work is breaking the law, is he a good judge of safety or just a cowboy after a quick buck? You decide for yourself.

 

[obiplumbkinobi]

And I'm afraid that most gas jobs carried out by non-registered plumbers are less than competently installed and don't get registered....get that alot on gas safety inspections. With few customers knowing or caring until something goes wrong

There is a general ignorance amongst consumers....alot think their hot water is the same water that runs through their radiators! (Not allowing for direct gravity hot water systems..old skool) Most plumbing and heating is basic physics and chemistry, the type you learned in secondary school, unless you want to get into thermal dynamics etc.

 

[Deleted member 105431]

http://www.cnplus.co.uk/hot-topics/...ailed-after-ignoring-warnings/5202306.article

just one example of an unregistered gas fitter.

 

[obiplumbkinobi]

It's cheap for a reason. I don't accept the "RGI's are dole ing out loads of cash to get a worthless piece of paper argument"

More the customers are too cheap to get a proper job done.

There are plenty of good honest trades out there who will give you good job at a good price, and more often than not will lose profit to make sure it's right!

Most people only see the bottom line and think " 85 quid he's only been there an hour" until you do your sums and look at travel, equipment, insurance, on going training, tax, tools, sickness, holiday etc. they seem to think it's going in the pocket!

A carpenter I know gave this anecdote to a bad paying customer.

"I saw this great shirt in a shop, really fantastic, but I didn't have enough money for it, but I really wanted it! Do you know what I did?

"No" said the customer, "what did you do?"

"I didn't F**king buy it" He said.

 

[kjacko]

It's cheap for a reason. I don't accept the "RGI's are dole ing out loads of cash to get a worthless piece of paper argument"

Its worthless if you get a RGI come and do a shoddy job. Again, as mentioned a few times, they're not automatically a better fitter just because they're name is on a list (after shelling out for it). So i guess the customer would be looking for peace of mind (insurance wise) should anything go wrong.

Most people only see the bottom line and think " 85 quid he's only been there an hour" until you do your sums and look at travel, equipment, insurance, on going training, tax, tools, sickness, holiday etc. they seem to think it's going in the pocket!

Yeah that was my point earlier, they charge more because of the fact they ARE registered and want to cover those costs. Some customers feel it necessary, some don't. Some would rather employ someone who isn't corgi, knowing they're cheaper due to less overheads (i guess). Still doesn't make them less competent.

A carpenter I know gave this anecdote to a bad paying customer.

"I saw this great shirt in a shop, really fantastic, but I didn't have enough money for it, but I really wanted it! Do you know what I did?

"No" said the customer, "what did you do?"

"I didn't F**king buy it" He said.

What's your point? that if you cannot afford the best, or what you truly want, not to bother at all? In other words, if you cannot afford corgi fitters, don't bother with having any work done?

I'll go back to my earlier post about my friend who decided to leave corgi. He's still a damned good fitter. I'd trust him above anyone else to do my work, and certainly above someone i don't know who does happen to be registered.

I agree that its not the perfect system, and that RGI it is necessary. But there is room for both imho. If there were only RGI fitters, look how many cold houses there would be because people could not afford to have the work done.
Someone has to fill the gap in the 'market (?) as it were.
Still doesn't make them less skillful. (Damn, gonna has to sig that if i say it any more )

As DM said, you pays your money you takes your chance etc. Well registered or not, i'd go with recommendations from friends etc. That to me is the best measure of someones competence.

 

[maltaron]

The last refurb that I did, I installed all the central heating myself (not a plumber but building trade trained and plenty common sense) But not the gas connection. I willingly paid a local CORGI man £170 for 3 hours to connect the gas and do all necessary tests. I consider that gas is a definate No No for DIY. (there are far more gas explosions than make the news) Interestingly he also found a leak left by the local gas board.

 

[kjacko]

The last refurb that I did, I installed all the central heating myself (not a plumber but building trade trained and plenty common sense) But not the gas connection. I willingly paid a local CORGI man £170 for 3 hours to connect the gas and do all necessary tests. I consider that gas is a definate No No for DIY. (there are far more gas explosions than make the news) Interestingly he also found a leak left by the local gas board.

Yeah, i see nothing wrong with that at all. A Competent AND conscienscous registered fitter would only put his name to a cert if he can test the system that's been pre-installed surely?!

As you, i'd never touch gas, even though some fitters i speak to say its easier to work with that water. Its just more flammable

 

[obiplumbkinobi]

And how would you tell if someone is competent? Because they said so? What point of reference do you use for that then?

Btw you cant tell a system is properly installed just by looking at a appliance or carrying out a tightness test.

 

[kjacko]

I'm not assuming you can obi, but surely only an idiot would sign off work as his own without checking/verifying it all first. If there's some of the system they cannot check and they're doubtful of, then they shouldn't sign it. If they do...the're an idiot! Maybe its a small enough job that they can check it out and certify it with confidence.
That's seems like common sense to me. A corgi guy would be risking a lot if he signed off work that he couldn't verify and then something subsequently went wrong with it. I mentioned professional suiide in an earlier post.

Is it a measure of a non-corgi fitters physical incompetence that he has to get a corgi fitter to sign off his work?
Or is it a measure of moral incompetence on the part of the corgi fitter who DOES sign off on someones elses work?

Plumbing paradox

 

[D_Hailsham]

Our lords and masters, you know, the ones who make the laws that they want us mugs to stick to, ie MPs, have been lying, cheating and stealing for years.

If you are referring to MPs' expenses the problem is that, legally, they have not done anything wrong. The rules governing what could be claimed as expenses were so vague that almost anything could be claimed. It was a not a question of whether it was legal to make the claim but whether it was ethical/moral. Of course some claims are alleged to have been fraudulent - mortgage payments when there was no mortgage.

I am waiting for the Inland Revenue to start their investigations. Expenses, for a normal tax payer, have to be "wholely, necessarily and exclusively" related to your work. How an MP can claim that for his 50inch LCD TV, £1000 washing machine. duck house etc is beyond me. The Inland Revenue could easily say: this is not a legitimate expense, the money paid to you is effectively salary and therefore taxable.