Lets write a reply!

[RF Lighting]

I spotted this letter in PE magazine yesterday.

I really think we ought to put our minds together and write a relpy.

There are some pretty worrying points in there.

 

[ricicle]

I saw that and thought hmmmmm...........

 

[Click-Sure]

I nearly fell off my chair when I read this. You can be the most capable spark going, but your obviously not by flounting the law, when mosts customers thing he isn't, where the onus to comply with part P is on them! It will provoke some heated replies for some time to come, thats why they printed it.

 

[Stoday]

Cowboy.

 

[Spark123]

Wind up?

 

[sparkybird]

Yes, i spotted that too and thought, well he must be really thick if he put his name on the end of it!

Or maybe it is a wind up.... But then surely PE shouldn't be printing it?

(Just like the "famous shower scenes" advert with the bird with the big bazzookers , which seems to be in every month )

 

[markymark2406]

I don't think its a joke, you can walk into B&Q and buy anyhing electrical you can do a full rewire have you ever seen a sign warning of the Part P regs in said shop? and if there was a big sign would people know what it meant and adhere to it i dont think so, anyway this guy is a nobody and he is doing a job which us qualifyed can do.

I was in B&Q the other day and a guy stood there with a 5amp switch plate looking bewildered, he told me that be wanted the correct cable to wire up a electric shower

 

[oharaf]

I shudder to think about what and how he may have installed circuits.

He is clearly one of those people who did his 'training' and then feels that he is then set for life, no need to refresh his skills and knowledge or learn about new techniques/ regs./ requirements.

He clearly claims he sees no point in PLI and cares even less for the people he carries works out for.

LABC's need to know of him and potential customers, eventually he is going to get something wrong a no one will be covered and someone may well lose their life.

Gobsh1te is what my father would have called him.

Lets find him, take him to Chester at mid-night and hang him!!!!

 

[hairyben]

You can be the most capable spark going, but your obviously not by flounting the law,

This much is true, a good tradesman displays a more conscientious attitude.

But that said, part P should have been titled P-take- the fact of the matter is, he can carry on with seeming impunity. And another point worth considering is a lot of older guys like him, while they don't have the up to date qualifications etc still know the ropes, ie circuit loadings, ring integrity etc are leaving the trade with "I-know-nothings so long as it works thats good enough" making up the shortfall.

Part P is not really enforced, and as such is largely irrelevant for anyone not needing a building final certificate. All I can see it's done is give bodgit merchants a competitive edge on pricing, as us registered blokes are all paying for our schemes.

 

[WhydidIstart]

I don’t know anything, this is just a comment.

I think it is necessary to look at the whole picture and not just condemn this guy straight away, which some people seem to have done. Would I want him working on my wiring? Well probably not and the argument for keeping up with all the latest training, regulations and standards is a very strong one.

However, we live in the real world and if things are made overly complicated and expensive for all the sparks out there a) less people are going to want to do the job and b) prices for the consumer are going to go up.

This will result in two bad things happening; firstly people will be more inclined to do the work themselves and secondly odd-job people with no qualifications at all are more likely to add ‘an extra socket or two’ [in the kitchen] making it even harder for sparks to get the work.
So given the situation that someone is determined to have a new shower and they just don’t have enough cash for a professional, I would far rather this guy does the work for them than they do it themselves and end up with the correct 10mm cable but wired to a single pole light switch for example!

It sounds harsh, but yes this guy might end up killing someone, however by providing a cheap service he might have prevented 3 deaths from dangerous diy installations. Remember that we are just looking at probability as surprisingly few people are actually electrocuted each year in the UK (fires kill more), so it is more like 0.000001 people vs 0.000003 people.

 

[uselessFCUK]

Brian England... living in Wales, maybe he's Scottish with an Irish accent.

Lets find him, take him to Chester at mid-night and hang him!!!!

If he is a Taffy then you can still shoot him with a long-bow if within the walls after midnight

 

[davy_owen_88]

And another point worth considering is a lot of older guys like him, while they don't have the up to date qualifications etc still know the ropes, ie circuit loadings, ring integrity etc are leaving the trade with "I-know-nothings so long as it works thats good enough" making up the shortfall.

I think its quite the opposite. Many older generation sparks worked by the 'if it works its fine' attitude but due to new regulations such as Part P, significantly more newcomers to the trade are aware that testing and certification is a major part of the trade and so tend to be more willing to do so as they are not stuck in those old fashioned and ignorant ways - that is of course assuming these newcomers aren't the apprentices of said old fashioned ignorant sparks.

I think you might be comparing old fashioned electricians with modern day builders/kitchen fitters/plumbers who may not know their electrical arse from their electrical elbow

 

[hairyben]

I think you might be comparing old fashioned electricians with modern day builders/kitchen fitters/plumbers who may not know their electrical a**e from their electrical elbow

thats precisely what I'm doing.



In the 14 years I've been doing this, I can only remember 1 fault highlighted by T+I on my work, which was an RCBO out of spec by a couple of millisecs. (I have had a couple of connection faults when using a helper on a bigger job, but not with my work)

I've never had bad ring continuity, never had wrong polarity, never had an earth loop too high to operate the protective device.

I expect most experienced electricians can make the same claim. All T&I does is prove it so. So when a (properly trained) spark says he doesn't bother with all the paperwork, it's highly unlikely he's leaving a trail of destruction that'll challenge a Bruce Willis movie.

Whatever you feel, these people are not the people responsible for the introduction of part P. Yet they are, by and large, retiring from the trade rather than "fuss about" with registration and paperwork, and I can't say I blame them.

But the people responsible for regulation being introduced to the trade- we all know who they- by and large kitchen/bathroom fitters "yes I do the electric - we fix new sokkit - we fix metalic sokkit - we no rewire - new sokkit is good - new light is good - only keep tripping out - we try again we get right soon - ow I get shock - haha - is all good"

are, to this day, are making up the shortfall of the above sparks being ousted. AND NOBODY "IN CHARGE" GIVES A D*MN. Does anyone think this is good?

 

[securespark]

HB.

It's no good relying on the premise that you may not make any installation errors. You may be confident all is well, but you need to prove on paper your installation is safe.

Even if you have not made any mistakes with your side of things, what about Ze?

If you have not verified the incoming loop is within spec., you cannot guarantee your installation is safe, even if your side of things is 100%.

Quite apart from the fact that no EIC = not complying with 7671....

 

[hairyben]

HB.

It's no good relying on the premise that you may not make any installation errors. You may be confident all is well, but you need to prove on paper your installation is safe.

Even if you have not made any mistakes with your side of things, what about Ze?

If you have not verified the incoming loop is within spec., you cannot guarantee your installation is safe, even if your side of things is 100%.

Quite apart from the fact that no EIC = not complying with 7671....

Oh, I'm not saying this is the right way to proceed.

(and you make a very good point with Ze, like I mentioned in another thread concerning loss of the CNE on PME. Commissioning an installation is very important and I wouldn't suggest you shouldn't)

But back in real-life conditions, I'm pointing out that part P is scaring off skilled & knowledgeable installers, but not bodgit merchants, which is farcical.