mcb / rcbo

[dormermike]

Just wondering - is changing a MCB to a RCBO inside a consumer unit a notifiable task?

Is replacing an mcb with an mcb a notifiable task? I.e. like for like, if faulty.



Thanks.

 

[sparkticus]

Just wondering - is changing a MCB to a RCBO inside a consumer unit a notifiable task?

Yes, there is much more than meets the eye to such a change.

Is replacing an mcb with an mcb a notifiable task? I.e. like for like, if faulty.

No not notifiable but it must be tested and certificate issued.

 

[dormermike]

Just wondering - is changing a MCB to a RCBO inside a consumer unit a notifiable task?

Yes, there is much more than meets the eye to such a change.

Is replacing an mcb with an mcb a notifiable task? I.e. like for like, if faulty.

No not notifiable but it must be tested and certificate issued.

Must? So its law?

 

[sparkticus]

Must? So its law?

I don't know how you equate "must" with law? I am not an expert on law so I will let someone else comment on your question.

Here is what I am quite sure of:

All electrical work on fixed wiring within a dwelling requires a certificate to be completed showing what work has been done, confirmation that the work complies with building regulations/wiring regulations and shows test results. Some work on fixed wiring within a dwelling also requires notification to Local Area Building Control (LABC) Any person who does electrical work that is not compliant and/or without certification can incur a fine and can be forced to make the installation compliant. How that is ultimately regulated is not a question that I have any experience or knowledge of.


ADDITIONAL: Just to clarify, my perspective is one of being a registered electrician so I am interested in safety and compliance with building regulations including wiring regulations. The law comes in somewhere there but that part I have no/little knowledge or interest in.

 

[Paul_C]

No not notifiable but it must be tested and certificate issued.

Must? So its law?

No.

 

[sparkiemike]

Just wondering - is changing a MCB to a RCBO inside a consumer unit a notifiable task?

Is replacing an mcb with an mcb a notifiable task? I.e. like for like, if faulty.

Thanks.

I would not expect either case to be notifiable; the guidance that is provided is not that prescriptive.

However I would expect some testing to take place, even it was just testing to establish the earth fault loop impedance, checking polarity and verifying that the correct operation of a RCD. This generally falls in line with guidance issued by the NICEIC for maintenance work.

 

[sparkticus]

Both Bristol & Bath LABCs state that any alteration to a domestic consumer unit which changes the characteristics of the protective devices in any way in a dwelling is notifiable. Replacing like for like is not notifiable. Specifically changing an MCB to an RCBO is notifiable in the regions of Bristol & Bath.

 

[Paul_C]

Specifically changing an MCB to an RCBO is notifiable in the regions of Bristol & Bath.

Unless local authorities have quietly been given the power to override statutory legislation, I'd say that their claims have absolutely no legal backing. You have only to read as far as 1(a) in Schedule 4 of the Building Regulations to find the exemption from notification:

Descriptions of Work where no Building Notice or Deposit of Full Plans Required

1. Work consisting of—

(a) replacing any fixed electrical equipment which does not include the provision of—

(i) any new fixed cabling, or

(ii) a consumer unit;

 

[sparkticus]

Descriptions of Work where no Building Notice or Deposit of Full Plans Required

1. Work consisting of—

(a) replacing any fixed electrical equipment which does not include the provision of—

(i) any new fixed cabling, or

(ii) a consumer unit;

Are you indicating that changing a consumer unit is notifiable but changing what is in it (not like for like) is not?

 

[JohnW2]

Are you indicating that changing a consumer unit is notifiable but changing what is in it (not like for like) is not?

If I may elbow in, that's certainly what the legislation seems to be saying. As Paul ahs indicated, the 'exclusion to the exclusion' relates to "provision of a consumer unit".

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Paul_C]

Are you indicating that changing a consumer unit is notifiable but changing what is in it (not like for like) is not?

That's what Schedule 4 says.

Is it work which consists of replacing fixed electrical equipment? Yes.

Does it involve the provision of new fixed cabling? No.

Does it involve the provision of a consumer unit? No.

So it's exempt under 1(a). Unless, I suppose, thinking about it pedantically, one wanted to argue that the conductor used to connect the RCBO to the neutral busbar or earth constitutes new fixed cabling.

 

[riveralt]

Both Bristol & Bath LABCs state that any alteration to a domestic consumer unit which changes the characteristics of the protective devices in any way in a dwelling is notifiable. Replacing like for like is not notifiable. Specifically changing an MCB to an RCBO is notifiable in the regions of Bristol & Bath.

Yes five LABC's in my area say that this is notifiable on the basis that the characteristics of the circuit have been fundamentally changed - so I would notify as well.

 

[sparkticus]

I had this very same discussion at an NIC tech-talk meeting last year. Two LABCs reps were there. I am not disputing what the building regs indicate and neither are they but (and I completely agree with the two LABC reps) is it logical to consider that you must notify the change of CU but not if you change every "active" component within in it and potentially alter the characteristics of the protective devices?

EDIT, just reading my notes from that meeting. They (LABC) would consider that the system (consumer unit) as a whole would have been fundamentally altered and would consider that the related circuit characteristics would have been altered.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes five LABC's in my area say that this is notifiable on the basis that the characteristics of the circuit have been fundamentally changed - so I would notify as well.

Reasonable though that might be (in common sense terms) what part of Schedule 2B do they think allows them to require notification on the grounds that the characteristics of the circuit have been changed? Whilst 1(c) and 1(d) do refer to changes in circuit protective measures, they only relate to work on enclosures or mechanical protection.

...and, in passing, I've often wondered ... what on earth is 1(h) doing there??

Kind Regards, John.

 

[riveralt]

I had this very same discussion at an NIC tech-talk meeting last year. Two LABCs reps where there. I am not disputing what the building regs indicate and neither are they but (and I completely agree with the two LABC reps) is it logical to consider that you must notify the change of CU but not if you change every "active" component within in it and potentially alter the characteristics of the protective devices?

If you change one mcb for rcbo and it is not notifiable - you could end up changing them all - at what point would it become notifiable?
Also we are not told by the OP which circuit is affected. If it in a special location, kitchen etc then it would become notifiable.
It costs £2.50 to notify - hardly going to damage the bank.