Nationalised industry question

[motorbiking]

gas : British Gas have been steadily losing customers since privatisation - they've lost nearly half. why? people getting a better deal elsewhere?
BT: used to take up to 6 months to install a line now 2 weeks
Electricity 8 countries in Europe pay more for electricity than we do

Of course state ownership does provide some economies of scale. I suspect, SSE, EON, Centrica etc, would all spend less on salaries, buildings,IT etc as one, but would they offer the customer a better deal if they weren't competing.

 

[SirGalahad]

Don't they just go and ask the workers what to do and type it up?

Thats what we used to do

They still do.

I'd value Mckinsey more if they actually provided something genuine and insightful but they are just chasing revenue targets now and trying to be like a premium version of the Big 4. I'd get better value from a niche player these days than any of the big boys.

 

[SirGalahad]

What drives innovation in companies? Competition. The need to be better than the next firm. State ownership removes the need to compete which stifles innovation. Change or die or stay the same with secured income. If your customers cannot switch to get a better service, then you don't need to change.

Where there is a natural monopoly - water for example, then it drives pure profiteering as you can't switch supplier due to poor service.

The Internet was created through state funding. Alot of the basic research funding which is used to create new products is state funding. Innovation or waves of creative destruction (Schumpeter) requires entry and exit and substitutes and complements.

It's definitely a case of industry by industry and service by service approach to what should or should not be privatised.

 

[SirGalahad]

Interesting comments.

Do you think we have competition on energy services? I know we have lots of chouces of suppliers, but has anybody found a real saving chopping and changing suppliers? I always change, but the actual saving is minimal? Prices didn't fall, there were just more choices!

Building control, ask Grenfell etc ?

Peoples understanding of competition is basically can someone else provide the service then it's competition but you need to have a look at the full supply chain.

Do we have competition is energy production, distribution and consumption? If not in all three areas then we do not have real competition. Do we have price collusion? If we hear the providers saying wholesale prices are rising and we are passing the costs onto you then what type of competition do we have?

 

[SirGalahad]

gas : British Gas have been steadily losing customers since privatisation - they've lost nearly half. why? people getting a better deal elsewhere?
BT: used to take up to 6 months to install a line now 2 weeks
Electricity 8 countries in Europe pay more for electricity than we do

Of course state ownership does provide some economies of scale. I suspect, SSE, EON, Centrica etc, would all spend less on salaries, buildings,IT etc as one, but would they offer the customer a better deal if they weren't competing.

Isn't BT line install times has as much if not more to do with new technologies making provisioning that much quicker than saying it's purely down to competition?

 

[big-all]

Interesting comments.

Do you think we have competition on energy services? I know we have lots of chouces of suppliers, but has anybody found a real saving chopping and changing suppliers? I always change, but the actual saving is minimal? Prices didn't fall, there were just more choices!

Building control, ask Grenfell etc ?

if you keep swapping you get the best deal as in costs plus inflation when you swap and thats the savings
they make there money from people not swapping at the end off the deal and they are put on a"standard tariff " that will be perhaps 25-40% more

 

[ellal]

Isn't BT line install times has as much if not more to do with new technologies making provisioning that much quicker than saying it's purely down to competition?

That is indeed the case...

The switchover from analogue to digital would have happened regardless of ownership.

But BT had a plan back in the 80's to install fibre optic cable across the country and make the UK a world leader in high speed communications/data transmission.

However Thatcher vetoed it because the cost would have prohibitive to the 'chums' she wanted to sell it off to!

Profit before people as always!

 

[SirGalahad]

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_price_statistics

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-households-pay-power

Interesting reading about the high costs of electricity in Germany. You cannot just look at nominal prices charge for energy, you need to look into taxes and wider implications such as move to renewable energy as a cost worth paying now rather than postponing.

 

[SirGalahad]

One more issue about privatisation they are always sold off cheaply. I wonder why?

 

[ellal]

One more issue about privatisation they are always sold off cheaply. I wonder why?

Yep, Royal Mail having been one of the latest...only a few billion lost

But completely overshadowed by the tens of billions that are being lost with the gradual re-privatisation of our publicly owned banks!

 

[Yafo]

if you keep swapping you get the best deal as in costs plus inflation when you swap and thats the savings
they make there money from people not swapping at the end off the deal and they are put on a"standard tariff " that will be perhaps 25-40% more

So it is not really competition?

Just going from 1 deal to the next? Proper competition is actual real noticeable difference between suppliers.

No matter which supplier I change from and too, my monthly costs never decrease. I probably have saved around £1 a week by chopping and changing. Do you consider that as a worthwhile amount to save by competition? Would it not be cheaper to stop paying so much to big business and shareholders, rather than just cover costs and let business and other industry be more competitive with real business?

There are arguments for and against nationalisation, I can see both sides. But in my opinion, certain things, like electricity, gas, water, transport (rail and bus) should be run for the benefit (and security) of the country and its people, not just for the wealthy investors. Industry, manufacture and supply of products and such, where the country, and its people, have a real choice of whether they consume or not, should be open to proper competition.

 

[Tigercubrider]

A lot of the rail network is state run- however it's run by the French or Dutch state, not the British state.
A lot of our rail subsidies are making European trains cheaper for European citizens (that won't change with Brexit) as the profits go to their own services (I don't blame them)

On the same programme a Tory minister who was pro Royal Mail sell off climed that it was necessary to sell it off because postal services wouldn't survive in the e-world. Would you buy a car from a bloke who implied that the car was in decline?

We allow the German postoffice to operate in the uk in cmpetition where the reverse isn't true
That must be engineered to encourage privatisation.

 

[SirGalahad]

A lot of the rail network is state run- however it's run by the French or Dutch state, not the British state.
A lot of our rail subsidies are making European trains cheaper for European citizens (that won't change with Brexit) as the profits go to their own services (I don't blame them)

On the same programme a Tory minister who was pro Royal Mail sell off climed that it was necessary to sell it off because postal services wouldn't survive in the e-world. Would you buy a car from a bloke who implied that the car was in decline?

We allow the German postoffice to operate in the uk in cmpetition where the reverse isn't true
That must be engineered to encourage privatisation.

Neo Liberal mantra that has taken hold in the conservative party and probably some old school back scratching and corruption.

I suggest you do some reading about Chicago Boys and Chile and how that was the test bed for the neo liberal policies of Reagan and Thatcher.

 

[durhamplumber]

If Labour end up in govt and ultimately nationalise everything,what stops the (UK) ending up a mess like Venezuela?

 

[SirGalahad]

If Labour end up in govt and ultimately nationalise everything,what stops the (UK) ending up a mess like Venezuela?

You, obviously. Don't let facts get in the way of your rant.