New Alarm

[whistle]

To be honest if I was an average joe customer I would have a wired or wirefree installed by a non approved installer and once the system was stable and any false alarms had been ironed out then I would call in an approved company check it over and do the servicing.

That could end up costing you more if the new install needs bring up to standards.

If the Sparky installed Grade 2 kit then why would it cost money to bring up to scratch. If the system wasn't as specified or wouldn't be accepted for a service takeover then I would be straight back to the spark for a free repair or update.

you do do handover sheets - resistance readings, power etc etc, dont you?

 

[youtekkinthepish]

you do do handover sheets - resistance readings, power etc etc, dont you?

Of course he does.
As a self certified competent person he uses his yellow wireless PAT/Avo.

Then declares all is right with the world....and that it is those who can actually show evidence of competency that are doing it all wrong and know nothing.

 

[ahdsh]

Are you seriously suggesting approved installers would turn down the chance to pick up service contracts?

thats correct

Why pointless?
If you are using your own phone line wether that's to an ARC or to your own mobile there is EXACTLY the same chance of the signal getting through as the EXACT same equipment is being used. Odd statement
Audit trail... yes you do as provided by the control panels log.

okay, leaving aside graded comms as thats too hard for you to comprehend

imagine this scenario

Joe - you were called by my alarm, there was a break in and they must have been there for ages - why didnt you go and see to it?

adam - i wasnt called (cause you never asked me to be a keyholder, and i dont want bashing over the head either)

Joe - yes you were the alarm went off and the log says it went off

adam - but it didnt ring me

Joe - yes it did

adam - prove it.

myself? I prefer a paper trail when I go to court

as I said - its pointless using a speech dialler.

You need to learn more about other products.
Mine for example keep a chronological event log of sensors activtated and a list of systems reached.
Adam would not be able to lie his way out of the speech dialler I provide.
If he had answered the call it would be on the list.

Lets try another scenario shall we?

JOE Hey I have been burgled
ARC Yep your alarm went off allright.. patio door then your hallway pir and your lounge , they had a right ol' time
JOE So you notified the keyholders?
ARC We tried but noone answered.
JOE But the police arrived yes?
ARC we informed them but unfortunately it was Saturday night and noone was available.
Oh and thats the second time your keyholders haven't responded so I am afraid your URN has been downgraded to level 1 , no response.

 

[whistle]

[
You need to learn more about other products.
Mine for example keep a chronological event log of sensors activtated and a list of systems reached.
Adam would not be able to lie his way out of the speech dialler I provide.
If he had answered the call it would be on the list.

Lets try another scenario shall we?

JOE Hey I have been burgled
ARC Yep your alarm went off allright.. patio door then your hallway pir and your lounge , they had a right ol' time
JOE So you notified the keyholders?
ARC We tried but noone answered.
JOE But the police arrived yes?
ARC we informed them but unfortunately it was Saturday night and noone was available.
Oh and thats the second time your keyholders haven't responded so I am afraid your URN has been downgraded to level 1 , no response.

what a load of rubbish -

your panel cannot say that a "named" person answered the phone (or not) and then did or did not attend a site,

it cannot inteligently (sic) deal with answerphones and mobile network failure

it cannot re activate itself and notify the keyholders again if no action has been taken within a defined period and send a signal marking such

your panel cannot keep an audit trail admissable in court of who and what occured

the police WILL NOT downgrade to level one (which is actually FULL police response) if they dont meet a keyholder on site.


A simple dialler is just that - simple and not upto the job








its been said before - you really dont know what your on about so please stop posting so much wrong information in public.

 

[Europlex]

Good to see that the ******* (starred) abuse post has been deleted.

One of my old teachers used to say that anyone using that sort of language, written or spoken, had "a diarrhoea of words but a constipation of thoughts"

 

[ahdsh]

[
You need to learn more about other products.
Mine for example keep a chronological event log of sensors activtated and a list of systems reached.
Adam would not be able to lie his way out of the speech dialler I provide.
If he had answered the call it would be on the list.

Lets try another scenario shall we?

JOE Hey I have been burgled
ARC Yep your alarm went off allright.. patio door then your hallway pir and your lounge , they had a right ol' time
JOE So you notified the keyholders?
ARC We tried but noone answered.
JOE But the police arrived yes?
ARC we informed them but unfortunately it was Saturday night and noone was available.
Oh and thats the second time your keyholders haven't responded so I am afraid your URN has been downgraded to level 1 , no response.

what a load of rubbish -

your panel cannot say that a "named" person answered the phone (or not) and then did or did not attend a site,

it cannot inteligently (sic) deal with answerphones and mobile network failure

it cannot re activate itself and notify the keyholders again if no action has been taken within a defined period and send a signal marking such

your panel cannot keep an audit trail admissable in court of who and what occured

the police WILL NOT downgrade to level one (which is actually FULL police response) if they dont meet a keyholder on site.


A simple dialler is just that - simple and not upto the job

its been said before - you really dont know what your on about so please stop posting so much wrong information in public.

The dialler CAN record which number was reached...
It deals with answerphones the same as unanswered calls as a key has to be pressed to acknowledge the call meaning human interaction.
No it can't keep a trail for court but the system represents the halfway house between having a 'bells' only and a monitored system.
The Police will downgrade you to no response if the keyholders fail to respond more than once. I meant level 3 rather than one , but I knew what I meant.

ACPO guidelines...

6. KEYHOLDERS

All premises with Type A systems shall have at least two keyholders, details of whom will be maintained by the ARC or through arrangements with a central keyholding service. Keyholders shall be trained to operate the alarm, be telephone subscribers, have adequate means of transport to attend the premises at all hours, shall have access to all relevant parts of the premises and shall be able to attend within 20 minutes of being notified. Failure to comply may result in withdrawal of police response.

Just drop it whistle you are clutching at straws

 

[ahdsh]

Good to see that the ******* (starred) abuse post has been deleted.

One of my old teachers used to say that anyone using that sort of language, written or spoken, had "a diarrhoea of words but a constipation of thoughts"

My thoughts were very clear!

 

[youtekkinthepish]

ACPO yada yada

Clearly someone is still reading the blurb from the West Riding Police web site. AND is having trouble understanding the meaning of 'guidelines' and 'may'.

Quoting rules, regs and guidelines as if expert on the subject whilst openly showing no knowledge of the subject.
Charlatan.

 

[ahdsh]

ACPO yada yada

Clearly someone is still reading the blurb from the West Riding Police web site. AND is having trouble understanding the meaning of 'guidelines' and 'may'.

Quoting rules, regs and guidelines as if expert on the subject whilst openly showing no knowledge of the subject.
Charlatan.

Failure of keyholders to attend when requested on 3 occasions in a rolling 12-month period will result in the withdrawal of police response for a 3-month period.

 

[youtekkinthepish]

Failure of keyholders to attend when requested on 3 occasions in a rolling 12-month period will result in the withdrawal of police response for a 3-month period.

Make your mind up.
It's clear to all you are still peeved at not being accredited -afterall, you are on record in the public domain stating you would love to be accredited.
But try and be consistent when posting your nonsense.

 

[ahdsh]

The only thing peeving me is your and whistles non stop pathetic attempts to claim I know nothing all the time when in fact on the subject of DIY alarms I know more than both of you put together. As seen above I know more than you about the ACPO guidelines. I will post whatever I think is relevant to the original posters thread but it seems that both you and whistle are only interested in stalking my posts and looking for trouble totally off topic and nowhere near the posters original subject.

In short you are a couple of trolls. I notice though that good advice is very thin on the ground from either of you 'experts'
Yet again we will see another locked thread and another original poster wandering what type of idiots inhabit these forums.
I mean as an 'expert 'whistle has said you wont lose immediate response if keyholders don't show up when in fact the rules are very clearly stated.
You are probably scaring people off who daren't ask for DIY advice we have already had one person with a question starting off by apologising for mentioning YALE.. WTF!!! it's a DIY forum for chrisakes.
Why don't you two just bog off to a professional forum where professional advice is required.

Or if you really want to make a difference pick on so called bonafide alarm companies who rip off and mislead the public instead of myself who provides a much needed service at an affordable price. Askone of my twelve clients last week?

or direct them to an NSI company like this at their peril...

.http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/consumer-regulations/traders/1693/1/