New Boiler Cleaning System

[steveb1964]

I read with interest a post earlier about flushing the system. Although the orginator (qwerty) sounds a bit of a prat!

I notice people say the systems needs power flushed to do the job properly. However, may I point something out to get some constructive feedback.

My parents got a new boiler 14ish months ago and they did not get it powerflushed. I'm sure the X400 treatment plus something else was used (as opposed to the X300 someone else was saying). Once the new boiler was installed one of there friends told them it should have been power flushed. This worried them so they paid BG to come and do it. BG powerflushed the system for them (4 weeks after the new boiler was in) but they did not get any sludge, dirt, grime and whatever else out. The guy told them it was as clean as it could be for an old system. He said if a chemical clean is done right then you do not really need a powerflush unless you have blockages or other problems. He said BG do power flushes on new boiler installs rather than chemical cleans because with a powerflush they don't have to come out 2 weeks beforehand to start the chemical clean therefore saving them a trip.

Looking at this if a chemical treatment is done properly is a powerflush needed unless there is a huge problem?

I'm getting a WB Junior 28i in 6weeks and I have yet to decide whether to go for a powerflush or get the X400 treatment (or some other chemical treatment if there is a better one)

Please could some of you experts help me on this decision. I'd like to hear from people who have had new boilers and had a chemical clean as oppose to a powerflush to see if you have had any problems

Many thanks

 

[steveb1964]

Anyone........

Any advice greatly appreciated

 

[Soggy_weetabix]

I chemically clean systems with DS40

Aggressive stuff, but boy does it work

David

 

[steveb1964]

I chemically clean systems with DS40

Aggressive stuff, but boy does it work

David

Thanks

I'll ask he plumber if he uses that one, have you used the X400 stuff? Just wondered if it was any good??

 

[kevplumb]

have you used the X400 stuff? Just wondered it it was any good??

it's not as strong so takes longer to work depending how much grot is in the system

 

[masona]

I'm having problem with c/heating blockage/sludge problem and just put in X400 (only up to 4 wks maximum). I have been told the DS40 is the better stuff and I couldn't get any but X400 is also good. I believe you cannot powerflush first without breaking the sludge so the chemical would have to be put in first anyway. I have done a lot of research on powerflush and my own opinion is not really necessary depending how bad it is, best to use the chemical first and see how you get on.

Ahhh, kevplumb beat me to it!

 

[steveb1964]

Thanks all

If the plumber is going to use the X400 would you suggest it's left in for 1-2 weeks beforehand then? I want to make sure the system is clean for the new WB 28i Junior

 

[fitz1]

soggy where do u get DS40 from

 

[corgiman]

Dont forget that the main purpose of the power flush machine is to act as an agitator and lift debris up into the water so as it can then be dumped out.

Imagine some sand in the bottom of a bottle of water all settled then pour the water out, most of the sand will stay at the bottom of the bottle as the water runs out.

Now before you pour the water out, shake the bottle up so that all the sand leaves the bottom. THEN pour it out, you will find that you have no sand in the bottle.

AND that is what the machine does. but twithout the chemicals to breakup the magnetite its not much good it will move some of it, as using the chems without the machine will remove more than the machine but not all

BUT use them together and Bob is Definatley your mums brother

 

[masona]

Imagine some sand in the bottom of a bottle of water all settled then pour the water out, most of the sand will stay at the bottom of the bottle as the water runs out.

I'm thinking what about the radiator with the sludge on the bottom of it? Wouldn't that just goes over the top and leave the sludge there? I don't know much about how powerful the powerflush is, might be best to take the rads outside for flushing and powerflush the circuit maybe?

soggy where do u get DS40 from

I've been looking for one on here , not a bad price considering plumbase are charging £34

 

[corgiman]

Imagine some sand in the bottom of a bottle of water all settled then pour the water out, most of the sand will stay at the bottom of the bottle as the water runs out.

I'm thinking what about the radiator with the sludge on the bottom of it? Wouldn't that just goes over the top and leave the sludge there? I don't know much about how powerful the powerflush is, might be best to take the rads outside for flushing and powerflush the circuit maybe?

well i was thinking more of the pipes that are running at the bottom of the system, yes you can take the rads off and wash them out but thats the beauty of the machine you would not have to

 

[chrishutt]

An alternative to a power flush is a mains water flush as described in the FAQ topic. This does much the same thing in terms of forcing water through at high velocity to scour out more of the sludge. And of course it doesn't require buying or hiring an expensive machine.

In terms of the pressure available, mains water flushing is likely to be better than power flushing. Of course anyone whose already bought a power flushing machine is bound to insist that their expensive white elephant is the dog's whatsits, so don't expect many objective comments on this.

 

[croydoncorgi]

The underlying problem with ANY flushing process (pump, mains water, ...) is that you cannot always achieve a high enough flow rate through all parts of the system, sufficient to get the sludge into suspension and keep it there until it gets to a drainoff or back into the machine. OK - the chemical treatments WILL usually break up the lumpy bits and detach stuff stuck to the sides of radiators. But a key issue is the location of the drainoff point(s). They need to be at the low points so that you're not trying to carry particles uphill in the water flow. And if the boiler is large and especially if high-water-content / cast iron type, chances are that it will be IMPOSSIBLE to get a rapid flow through it (after all, a design objective of a boiler heat-exchanger is to maximise internal surface area. Large area = slow flow.). Some of these types have a drainoff low down on the HX itself. You'd be AMAZED at how much crud comes out of these, even after a powerflush. Trick is, flush out the boiler as much as possible first.

 

[chrishutt]

But a key issue is the location of the drainoff point(s). They need to be at the low points so that you're not trying to carry particles uphill in the water flow.

Not in my experience. Once you've managed to loosen the stuff, it won't have any trouble being carried uphill to a drain point, except perhaps lumps of solder, which are pretty rare and mostly harmless anyway.

The problem with flushing is getting deposits to detach from whatever they've settled on and into suspension (a rubber mallet used on rads can help, and there's even a special hammer drill attachment to do this). The important thing is to flush the rads while they're empty of water so that the flow is along the bottom channel where most of the crud is.

 

[corgiman]

I can see both your points but the machine does have the advantage of being able to reverse its flow which you can do with mains but it can be a bit of a pig (cutting pipes etc) whereas the machine can go straight on the pump valves.

I used to for years mains flush after leaving some chems in and allways found it ok, it did the job, the firm got a machine purely because the manufacturers were starting to insist on it so they spent 680 plus VAT on a kamco (seven years later they tight gits have brought a new one ) and put me on the powerflushing, which I found mind numbingly boring, and found that it wasnt that much better than a chem/mains flush (taking the rads off the wall etc etc) but it was a bit easier on labour.

I must say I like the machine and it does seem to do the job well (maybe not a panacea as some lads think but ok?)

But does anyone know if PART L and the manufactures are insisting on it? ( i would look but i am waaay too fat and lazy)

I think it comes down to personal choice at the end of the day, and speaking personally I would not be happy whacking a new system/combi boiler on an old system (i would prefer replacing all the old rads and pipework but the client usually dont want to pay for it and we aint doing it for free ) without powerflushing it, I also like popping in x400 a few weeks before as well as I am a paranoid bastard