New Viessmann 100-W taking longer to heat up than old Ideal Classic NF70 unit

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New Viessmann 100-W boiler taking longer to heat radiators up than old cast iron unit


I have been using a Ideal Classic NF70 open balanced gas boiler for some 24 years without any problems occurring with something like 25kW input running 14 radiators via a Grundfos pump on speed 2 plus two Honeywell valves. This set up was installed when the house was built and would just about cope when all 14 radiators were fully on.

We decided to replace the boiler with an up to date boiler after so many years of use. A local plumber installed a Veissmann Vitodens 100-W WB1B open vented system rated at 26kW after waiting three months for him to turn up.

Now it takes nearly twice as long to get the radiators heated up than the old boiler that of course fired up with full gas flow burning all the time and the new one cutting down the burn rate as soon as the temp reaches the pre set in the small bore stainless steel heat exchanger. Even set on a maximum of six on the front panel?

All the radiators have thermostatic valves fitted and pointed out to the plumber that there is a bypass valve set behind the copper tank in the airing cupboard at aprox a quarter of a turn open on a 180degree valve with only 15mm copper pipe attached to the normal 22mm piping to the tank and valves.

Once the radiators are eventually up to temp the bypass system gets very noisy and keeps me awake at night if I leave the central heating on. Should I install an auto balancing valve and replace the manual 15mm 180 degree unit that was fitted originally. I get the feeling that because the bypass valve is always semi open the modern burner straight away cuts down to a low setting as it sees the water temp from the bypass as up to temp?

Irony that the old cast iron boiler heated up the 14 radiators far quicker than the new boiler installed last month. Any help gratefully received as we seem to have gone backwards at the moment.
 
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All new boilers should have an auto bypass valve fitted IF you have TRVs on all rads and ideally even if you have some rads without TRVs..

What pump did you have before and what now?

Tony
 
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Heating up slowly is more gas efficient, in the same way that accelerating gently in your car is more fuel efficient than pushing the throttle all the way to the floor. Personally, I'd have kept the Classic as they're extremely reliable and parts are cheap, you'll never recover the cost of changing the boiler in gas savings, but it's a bit late for that now...
 
If the bypass is even partially open any hot water passing through it will mix with the cooler water from the rads. So the return temp at the boiler will be higher. This will cause the boiler to modulate down.

To comply with current building regulations, the installer should have replaced the manual bypass with an automatic bypass valve. Most ABVs are 22mm but Danfoss also do a 15mm version.
 
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Heating up slowly is more gas efficient, in the same way that accelerating gently in your car is more fuel efficient than pushing the throttle all the way to the floor.
Sorry, but I don't buy that as the two events are not comparable. For a start, there's no wind resistance to account for in a heating system.
 
Heating up a system slower, enables the boiler to warm it up gradually so that the average flow temperature during heat up is lower and so it condenses to a greater extent. It condenses most when the return is below 55 C.

Tony
 
Veissmann 100-W taking longer to heat up than Ideal Classic NF70 cast iron boiler


Pump used in the central heating system is a Grundfoss Super Selectric UPS 15-60 130 set on the middle position 2. Replaced by myself 3 months ago with two new 240volt Honeywell motorised valves before the Gas Safe plumber came along to install the new boiler.

Also put in a new Potterton EP2 timer on the wall at the same time as the original one had started to fry the relay contacts. As the bypass is taken off the main 22mm piping would the Danfoss AVDO15mm bypass valve fit the bill? Should really pass this cost onto the gas fitter in question?
 
Heating up a system slower, enables the boiler to warm it up gradually so that the average flow temperature during heat up is lower and so it condenses to a greater extent. It condenses most when the return is below 55 C.
Provide the rads are sized to give the required output when running at lower temperatures, there will be no difference in the heating up time.

If a house needs 21kW of rads, for 20C at -1C outside and you don't take the lower operating temperature into account, instead of getting 21KW you only get 15kW (assuming 70C/50C temperature). This will be OK until the outside temperature drops below 5C. At which point the rads will not be giving enough output, so by the time it is -1C outside you will only be able to heat the house to 14C.
 
Sorry Tony

The new Grundfos Selectric installed was a direct replacement of the original fitted some 24 years ago when we built the house. Used to have to change the wires inside the box for speed change No change in pumping speeds.

Chris
 
Heating up slowly is more gas efficient, in the same way that accelerating gently in your car is more fuel efficient than pushing the throttle all the way to the floor.
Sorry, but I don't buy that as the two events are not comparable. For a start, there's no wind resistance to account for in a heating system.

Well.... Actually....
 
Well actually, I think you should.

You're the one that said Muggles was wrong. Perhaps you should explain more fully why. Seeing as you know so much on how modern boiler work so as to be giving advise to strangers.
 
The auto bypass should be fitted before the two motor valves.

Set to about 0.3 bar.

Tony
 
Thanks Muggles

The Ideal Classic NF70 was dead simple to repair and the pcb had just the two relays on board but started to run out of relays needed as the voltage required to was high plus 10 amp capacity for the contacts which used to slowly wear out. Would have kept the boiler but it had started the odd rattle inside. With today's outside temp of plus 5* centigrade the output temp of the Viessmann was measured at 64* centigrade and the return at the boiler at 51*centigrade giving a 13* drop in temp. Manual bypass valve at around 38* from a closed position. (15mm washing machine type valve was installed)

Chris
 

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