Oil boiler on lockout after new motor fitted

[Ashtara]

As the boiler fired up yesterday morning, he doesn't think it's the new motor he fitted on Friday at fault.

He did adjust the 3 grub screws for quite a while and did loosen them a bit as they were too tight but then after that we had 3 morning lockouts.

That's why he thinks it was the pump adjusting to motor.

We are now waiting to see if it happens again (started up fine this morning and yesterday morning).

He spoke to oftec and the manufacturers and they have suggested moving the tigerloop from below the boiler to next to it above the burner but we are waiting for now to see if it locks out again.

He did say it may be the pump affected by old motor but that was only changed in November and I am reluctant to get that changed again.

For now we are just waiting to see if it locks out again and if so he will either adjust the grub screws again or move the tigerloop

 

[Burnerman]

Again we need to ascertain on morning start up....does the motor actually spin or not?
If it does, its fuel, if it doesn't its back to the motor, cap and pump syndrome.
This must be driving you nuts!
John

 

[Ashtara]

Thank you John,

I have had many a sleepless night over this and cried many tears over it too.

The problem is the boiler is set to start at 5.00am (my husband has to get up early to go to work) so I am having to get up at that time every morning and stand outside waiting for it to fire up.

It's just one of those things I am going to have to monitor for a while I am afraid.

Thank you for your concern and advice - much appreciated

 

[Burnerman]

I think if possible, I'd turn the boiler off at the time switch, and let the engineer start the thing up from cold when he was present (if thats possible - I don't know if you need heat from 5am or not).
Personally I don't think he's trying very hard - these things aren't rocket science and yours is one of the simplest designs with readily available parts. If I get really awkward systems such as yours, I run them on a bench and if they will start 10 times on the trot then really thats it.
However, the boiler does seem to be behaving itself just now, and once started, its fine for the rest of the day?
John

 

[Ashtara]

If it was locking out every morning I would definately be able to leave it till the boiler man is here and start it - alas it has always been intermittent (apart from the 3 days on the trot after new motor).

It's behaving again for now but then it has always done this as in worked for 1-2 weeks and then randomly locked out.

Of course when he does come round and checks it - it is always happily running without any problems. He was here for nearly an hour yesterday evening and we watched it click on and off happily.

 

[Ashtara]

OK so it just locked out, the first time it has done this in the daytime.

I wasn't expecting it so wasn't standing by it when it happened of course.

Engineer said he has tested the pump by putting a pressure guage on it and it is running how he would expect it to.

I asked him about checking the motor and he said if it was cutting out every morning he would say it was a faulty new motor but as that is not the case it can't be that either.

So he has suggested we move the tiger loop to be higher than the burner and see if that works seen as it always seems to lock out after it has not been used for a while.

If that doesn't work he thinks it is the valve the pump that is at fault and will need to be replaced again (the pump was replaced by another engineer in November who I got a bit disillusioned with so now got another engineer on the case)

 

[Burnerman]

Its still out for revenge then
Tell me, has this installation ever behaved itself and run perfectly?
There is a solenoid coil on the oil pump that allows the fuel to flow, and these are notorious for failure - but to be fair they usually pack in when they get hot.
I wonder too if your engineer has thoroughly cleaned out the boiler flueways....if they are fouled the burner running can be affected by rogue winds etc.
John

 

[Ashtara]

yep this thing is plagued

Ok so here is the synopsis since it was installed in March 2007:
December 2007 - blocked flue
November 2008 - service and new nozzle
December 2010 - service and nozzle
June 2011 - grime getting into oil - filter put on oil tank
October 2011 - service
December 2011 - new nozzle (should have been done with service)
February 2012 - control box
April 2012 - wrong nozzle fitted bu previous engineer, new jet and electrodes adjusted
November 2012 - new oil pump and pressure adjusted
May 2013 - new motor

Don't know if this has any bearing on it but in September 2011 we had to have the oil tank changed because it had a crack in it and new regs meant it had to be moved up the garden. This meant the oil line was changed to run right up behind the garage (Ting off from the boiler in the garage/annex) and back round. This is a good 120ft of oil line now.

I don't think the previous engineer did a through service last time as he didn't even change the nozzle (that was back in September 2012).

I am thinking now I have a new engineer on the case (who admittedly on the surface seems to have made it lock out more often) perhaps I should get him to service the boiler now too. Does that include clearing out the boiler flueways? (he did offer to do it when he fitted the motor but I declined as was not due to be serviced until Setember). Seems to me a little false economy to have a new motor fitted and not get it serviced too. What do you think?

My previous engineer spent months at my house in 2012 trying to work out the problem with this pesky boiler and in the end having changed so many parts only got it to work for a few months each time before it started playing up again.

My current engineer is very highly recommended. We live in a small village and word gets round when there is any bad workmanship so to speak. I have not had one person tell me he is not good at his job.

Out of curiosity, where should the tiger loop be in relation to the burner? should it be higher or lower than it?

 

[Burnerman]

For sure, if the flueways in the boiler are sooted up, then there's no way the thing will run correctly.
Oil boilers, if set up correctly don't produce a great deal of soot (usually) but they do suffer from sulphur deposits getting burnt onto the baffles. On the other hand, if the burner isn't set up correctly, they soot up very quickly indeed! A flue gas analysis shows problems here immediately.
I would have thought that anyone who cared would have at least inspected the boiler internals - certainly by now!
There should never be any smoke seen at the flue in any case, but naturally enough there will be some smell.
The tank filter(s) should be inspected and cleaned at every service, but to be fair a new nozzle isn't absolutely critical every time - although it does rule out any issues with these.
A tiger loop is a device which removes air and foam from your oil supply....I can't comment on its performance in your case, I'm afraid.
John

 

[Ashtara]

Tank filter was most certainly not checked. I am going to list all the things you have suggested and bring them up with the engineer when he comes round tomorrow

 

[Boilerman2]

According to OFTEC the Tigerloop should be higher than the oil pump on the burner, in the case of your Thermecon BWE 50/80 this would mean the Tigerloop would be up high near the top of the boiler case, which would not look very pretty, in my experience a mere 38 years, the Tigerloop will perform just as well tucked up below the bottom of the boiler case, and is sheltered from the weather too! but hey that's just my opinion!

 

[Burnerman]

Pleased to see you on this case Rick.....getting short of ideas on this one but I bet we've covered it somewhere
John

 

[Boilerman2]

 

[Ashtara]

Yep engineer did say he has been to many a client where the tiger loop has worked perfectly well under the boiler but it has got to be worth a try.

He is also going to check the pump coil and the position of the pump in relation to the motor to make sure it is allowing the motor to spin freely.

He is going to look at ignition leads and electrodes too although the electrodes were changed last year.

Flue gas analysis was done when new motor was fitted on Friday

New tank was fitted in summer 2011 so filter is ok.

Will post back with progress (he is coming to do work tomorrow)

 

[Ashtara]

Ok so this morning it fired up for a split second and then locked out.

Lets see if re-siting tiger loop, changing coil on pump and checking position of pump to motor helps.

He is definitely convinced it is something to do with oil supply though as only happens when boiler has been inactive for 6 plus hours.

Ricky & John - do you both agree?