Protherm 80E combi F1 failure, suspect ignition failsafe

[greg123]

As above - I was having a mix of F1's and F0's (no pressure) and after replacing a badly leaking water flow/pressure sensor with the new versions and cleaning up the mountings on that and the drain valve which were leaking in the brass threads (cleaned up and fitted back with ptfe tape - all water tight now) the F0's seem to have gone away.

However the F1's have got worse and I have bridged the overheat thermostat which I had replaced, just to confirm it's not the overheat thermostat and it still does it with the overheat thermostat bridged out, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day. Quite often if you have been turning the hot tap on and off, ie firing up and shutting down the boiler.

The boiler always lights first click and the flame is perfect. It has a single probe on the left side which I noticed is 'L' shaped and is set about 1mm above the metal burner outlets, maybe even touching them. Barely half a millimeter of gas flame gets under the probe - could this be the problem? It's 6 years old, should I get a new one if this is likely to be the problem and if so how far into the flame/how do you set the probe up?

Anything else that could be causing the F1 failure? Had a spate of stuff with this otherwise clean and shiny boiler and really want to get to the bottom of it, now the leak and the pressure switch and the overheat thermostat are sorted it's annoying me I now have this problem.

Help appreciated,
Greg.

 

[ChrisR]

I have bridged the overheat thermostat

dont EVER leave a boiler like that.

Can only say your problem suggests you need to call a corgi in to check/service the boiler.
If you don't know about basic stuff, you shouldn't do anything to a boiler

 

[greg123]

I have bridged the overheat thermostat

dont EVER leave a boiler like that.

Can only say your problem suggests you need to call a corgi in to check/service the boiler.
If you don't know about basic stuff, you shouldn't do anything to a boiler

Thanks for your concern Chris but I have never left it unattended bridged, I bridged it purely to replicate the fault and check it wasn't the thermostat partly playing a role. However the stat's back in and the boiler isn't being run unsafely, though it's possible for a stat to fail in the closed position which is as dangerous as what I did and the manufacturer's don't seem to have thought it dangerous enough to fit two in series to allow a fail safe, which is strange considering how dangerous you are saying it is.

Anyhow that's all besides the point, I do not need to call a corgi plumber in (I have a multitude of experience including many cases you can read about which highlight the fact that because you pay your corgi subs and got the pieces of paper to join, does NOT mean they a) know what they are doing and b) will bother to do a good job when the are, as usual, running late at the end of another 14 hour days). If I do call someone it will be based on reputation alone.

Just like the guys that helped me before identify the leaking water pressure sensor that is now 100% sorted, what I do need is some pointers on the flame failure device, if indeed that is causing the problem. I can fit no problem, I'm a mechanic, but I have no experience with combi's - hence asking questions.

Again I do understand your concern and thanks for pointing that out. I do also need some pointers though!

Greg.

 

[Agile]

I have bridged the overheat thermostat

dont EVER leave a boiler like that.


I do not need to call a corgi plumber in (I have a multitude of experience including many cases you can read about which highlight the fact that because you pay your corgi subs and got the pieces of paper to join, does NOT mean they a) know what they are doing and b) will bother to do a good job when the are, as usual, running late at the end of another 14 hour days).


Greg.

This is a potentially dangerous situation because you imagine that you are more competent that most CORGI registered people!

Could I ask you to think about these two questions:-

1. If you are so competent then why do you need to ask on here?

2. If you have not trained on Gas then how can you know what you dont know?

Think about it!

As a CORGI registered person myself I am not very happy that you seem to have such a low opinion of people who have passed the assessments!

Tony

 

[greg123]

Hi Tony,

I can understand you not being happy! It's a lot of work to get registered and trained, I understand.

Please note that I didn't say I was competent with combi's, that's why I'm here - as you suggested. I did say I was a competent mechanic. As it happens I'm qualified for 15 years and studied engineering at university level on top, however I wouldn't dream of saying 'go to a qualified mechanic' as I am well aware that some of the worst in the trade are the mfr's own dealers mechanics with full certification which are basically youfs who don't have a clue who dropped out of school into a training scheme. There are some good mechanics, but few, you certainly can't tell one by certification. My friend is a fully qualified electrician and he rings me up to check when he is struggling with electrical theory and generally doesn't touch the electrics on his car because he doesn't really understand it.

Tony I'm sure you are a GREAT plumber and gas fitter. You can blame my opinion on others, not yourself, who have let down everyone that I know, almost without exception. Maybe we just had bad luck eh, but being corgi registered when we booked them didn't save us that's for sure.

Anyhow I have no cash we'd literally be on to boiling kettles and being a skilled mechanic I am sure I don't need to call a corgi, it may be ADVISABLE or RECOMMENDED, but I have fixed my plumbing for the last 10 years so on that basis I'm still going with I don't NEED to call one, but if I don't I'll NEED to know what to do.

You are the expert buddy, sorry if you don't like me meddling and I know there is a risk. It'll be less of a risk if I get some pointers though. Replacing the water pressure valve and fixing the leaks was a doddle and now that's done and dusted, the unit can't have that many problems and I'm keen to get this one sorted.

Thanks again for your concern, it's understandable and apologies if I caused any offence re corgi, it's based on family and friends experience nothing personal there are some good guys out there with you I'm sure!

Greg.
PS I didn't say, but maybe it's relevant - though I don't think it is, that I'm a qualified LPG fitter so do have a gas background. I'm not touching the gas side, this is a simple query on a F1 failure which I imagine to be a part of the electrics in the form of the flame failure probe. If I did have to disconnect supply/tamper with the gas I may just see if we can stump the money to get a corgi to certify it. But this isn't that.

I have bridged the overheat thermostat

dont EVER leave a boiler like that.


I do not need to call a corgi plumber in (I have a multitude of experience including many cases you can read about which highlight the fact that because you pay your corgi subs and got the pieces of paper to join, does NOT mean they a) know what they are doing and b) will bother to do a good job when the are, as usual, running late at the end of another 14 hour days).


Greg.

This is a potentially dangerous situation because you imagine that you are more competent that most CORGI registered people!

Could I ask you to think about these two questions:-

1. If you are so competent then why do you need to ask on here?

2. If you have not trained on Gas then how can you know what you dont know?

Think about it!

As a CORGI registered person myself I am not very happy that you seem to have such a low opinion of people who have passed the assessments!

Tony