Query about weak earth wire situation?

[Newboy]

The OP clearly needs help and your half-truths and pseudo science are not helping with any issues the OP has.

He hasn't got a common cistern, what the hell I have never heard of such rubbish.

If you read the OPs post #23 you will find the reference to the common cistern - this is likely the source of the tank-feed to the bathroom

"I live in a old tenement building therefore the water tank is in the loft which none of the tenants have access to but I did hear a few years ago the tanks had flooded the top floor woman's flat and the council had to sort it out."

Oh really? does it I never knew that thanks for letting me know that! Now I know water expands at ****ing 4 degrees too when cooling. (BASIC PHYSICS)

If you want to get your basics right then please do a little research. Water is at it's most dense when at 4 °C rather than, as with most compounds, at it's freezing point. It doesn't magically expand when it reaches 4°C, it becomes less dense (expands) as it's heated and more dense (contracts) when it cools.

"

DID YOU GOOGLE FOR THOSE FIGURES?

No I googled to check that I knew what I was talking about - might not be a bad idea if you were to do the same.

What a twaddler and you stop alarming people

I'm not sure what a twaddler is (pretty sure that it's not a compliment though)

Far from alarming people I'm trying to politely ask you to stop posting inaccurate rubbish which may alarm somebody who needs help

I have no idea why your anus is on fire?

Well I'm using my normal temperature anus for it's evolved purpose rather then talking through it. In fairness you are producing the same product though - talking sh!t

You need any ice cubes let me know.

Would those ice cubes be less dense than liquid water at 4°C?

Anyway, life's too short to spend it dealing with ill-informed, inaccurate and insulting individuals (and I'm guessing that other forum users are getting bored with this) so I'm out

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Glad to see the back of you, i offered some help while you came to disrupt me and throw insults at me, and questioning my credibility, you haven't got the knowledge nor experience to question me

 

[bernardgreen]

Would those ice cubes be less dense than liquid water at 4°C?

Ice cubes float in water, to do this they have to be less dense than the water.

When water becomes ice in a pipe the ice sometimes bursts the pipe, the volume of the ice is greater than the volume of the water it was formed from.

 

[JOB6]

Thank you to everyone for all of your input and sorry if things have gone slightly off topic as I am sure you are all just trying to help out and I have certainly learned a lot from the thread. I will get a professional to sort the issues out in my flat and will keep you updated.

Thanks again and wishing you a good time over the festive season.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

No don't be sorry, its not you, glad to be able to help close down on your possible problem, the communal water storage tank looks the culprit.
get the landlord to sort out cold feed direct to bathroom. Or seek his OK and get a plumber to do it, the plumber will sort out anything that needs replacing anything else to withstand high mains pressure, usually you don't, some was talking from his backside. when you go and buy these ball float valves and other bathroom taps and things, they don't ask you is it for high pressure or for low pressure, some people talk from their rear end.

 

[JohnW2]

.... when you go and buy these ball float valves and other bathroom taps and things, they don't ask you is it for high pressure or for low pressure ...

It's not really necessary for taps, but in the case of float valves, they don't really need to ask, since (in my experience) they usually come with a pressure reducing thingy to insert if one is using them with high pressure.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Mikefromlondon]

indeed, almost all float valves i have come across don't have any pressure reduction device in them, just the usual float valve and the rubber washer.

It may be more of a problem with a low pressure as that may have problem getting through the valve as some may require considerable force to let water through.

 

[JohnW2]

indeed, almost all float valves i have come across don't have any pressure reduction device in them, just the usual float valve and the rubber washer.

As I impliede, that's very different from my experience in recent times. Do the one's you've come across not have something like this 'in the packet'? ...

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

indeed, almost all float valves i have come across don't have any pressure reduction device in them, just the usual float valve and the rubber washer.
It may be more of a problem with a low pressure as that may have problem getting through the valve as some may require considerable force to let water through.

Surely float valves don't need any force to let water through them.
When the float is down they are just open.
Force is needed to close them.

 

[JohnW2]

Surely float valves don't need any force to let water through them.
When the float is down they are just open.

I can but presume that what Mike is getting at is that if one is (incorrectly) using one of those pressure-reducing inserts (designed for use with high {'mains'} pressure water) with a low pressure supply (i.e. from a storage tank) then, even when the float is down and the valve is therefore fully open, the flow can be very low/slow.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Mikefromlondon]

As I impliede, that's very different from my experience in recent times. Do the one's you've come across not have something like this 'in the packet'? ...
View attachment 110639

Kind Regards, John

Thanks John, yes I have seen these come fitted in the pack, I have never had to remove any if they come fitted, I presume it is for reducing flow rather than pressure. (to stop water gushing out with force rather than with a reasonable amount of flow rate, and in doing so one may say it reduces pressure, once the valve closes, the pressure acting on the rubber disc would be no different to true incoming pressure, it just cannot reduce pressure as such in true terms, as a pressure regulator can do, as ones they use in gas supply, where they use a proper active regulator, using diaphragm and valves, but hey i am not here to argue with anyone, who knows i may be completely wrong.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Surely float valves don't need any force to let water through them.
When the float is down they are just open.
Force is needed to close them.

Unless it was a bit sticky and mal-adjusted, where the float tends to rub against the side wall, and high pressure may assist it to some extent. i agree what you have said though. when you flush a toilet, the float drops and valve opens as there is nothing against the valve seat and so even low pressure from a tanked water will flow through, though it may take a little longer to fill.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks John, yes I have seen these come fitted in the pack, I have never had to remove any if they come fitted, I presume it is for reducing flow rather than pressure. (to stop water gushing out with force rather than with a reasonable amount of flow rate, and in doing so one may say it reduces pressure ....

Indeed.

... once the valve closes, the pressure acting on the rubber disc would be no different to true incoming pressure, it just cannot reduce pressure as such in true terms ...

All true, but so what? i.e. what is your point?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Mikefromlondon]

The point was can a low pressure valve designed to stop low pressure flow stop high pressure flow. It really depends how high the pressure is, under extreme pressure the float valve can give in and allow water to pass through, but we are talking of extreme rise in pressure. In general plumbing it is of no real issue here, and when i am talking of extreme pressures, I mean like over 10 bars and by which time many other things would have bursted.

It is all to do with pressure acting on the rubber washer from the water side and the Force acting on that rubber disc being forced against the valve seat., there is a lot of leverage that multiplies the float force as well, so generally speaking a float valve can withstand a lot of pressure. ( Of course there are some implications)

in a cistern, all it will do is if assuming you did not have that spiral flow or pressure reduction device, it will fill tank up very rapidly, with a lot of water gushing noise, one can reduce this by turning the ball valve setting to reduce flow rate to a reasonable amount to avoid filling too rapidly, as there is a danger that the amount of water coming in may exceed that which can escape via the overflow in the event of a fault with the float valve. I usually recommend it turned just so that tank fills in about 3 minutes. ( I never leave it open fully even when spiral is fitted)

many siphons now come with internal overflow, (adjustable head) that does not require overflow pipes and if it fills up rapidly to the brink, it will self flush the tank, thereby no danger of water overflowing from the tank and on the bathroom floor.

(everyone has own opinions, we all have different experiences, so there is bound to be difference of opinion. one can learn these things through colleges and special training classes, but plumbing like everything else evolves, goal posts constantly changes, law changes, demographics change, the earth is getting old, sun is running out of energy soon in about 5 billion years from now, i am worried for the future generation! )

 

[JohnW2]

The point was can a low pressure valve designed to stop low pressure flow stop high pressure flow.

Oh, I see. The answer is that there is no such thing as a domestic float valve "designed to stop (only) low pressure", but the valves available are well able to stop high pressure (as well as low).

The system is 'self adjusting'. If the water pressure is high, more water will get past the valve as it gets near to the point of closing, so the water level in the cistern will rise and the force on the valve's washer due to the buoyancy of the float will increase. Just a relatively small increase in cistern water level will result in a considerable increase in the force being applied to the washer.

Kind Regards, John