radial circuit

[fairbrother89]

hello.
i need to wire in a new built in type cooker which the instructions say would be ok on just a 13amp plug, which surprised me. and on top an electric hob which apparently needs to go into a cooker point protected by ??? it doesen't say. its a bosch ordinary electric hob. not halogen or anything flash.

anyway what i'm thinking of doing is wiring the hob into my cooker point which is protected by a 30amp fuse at the fuse box (old style bakelite) at the moment.

But also i want to create a radial circuit to plug the cooker and the extractor fan into. and also fianally the fridge freezer.

i was hoping i could put the radial circuit AND the hob in the same cooker point outlet.

so wired into the outlet would be the hob plus a lenth of 2.5mm cable along which would be one double socket into which the cooker and fan would be plugged. the out again and terminating at another double socket into which the fridge freezer would be plugged.

i would like some advice on whether this is a safe option. thanks.

 

[ColJack]

few things..

cooker = appliance that houses both an oven and a hob...

you can't have a 2.5 radial protected by a 30A fuse, 4mm would be ok though.

not recommended to have a radial off a cooker circuit if the hob/cooker is attatched to it.

best to install a new seperate 20A radial for the oven / extract and a 16A for the fridge.. or a 32A (4mm) to cover both.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It's not safe - you must not have 2.5mm² on a 30A fuse supplying more than one socket.

• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:mcbtocable
  
  
• http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.3.1.htm
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/cableselection_web.pdf
  
  
• http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Charts/VoltageDrop.html
  

But then you know that, because you originally posted in this topic: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28705

 

[fairbrother89]

thanks ever so much for those replies. i'm thinking in light of what you've said that i should use the cooker connection for the hob alone and create a separate circuit for the other three appliances; namely the oven, extractor fan and finally the fridge freezer.
there is a connection box above the cooker point which contains 1 switched socket plus the cooker switch.
directly beneath this is a hole out of which comes a cable that connects one plug socket about 1m away to the left as you look at it.
maybe the easiest thing to do is nip these three wires. live neutral and earth and connect them to a junction box and run the cable for the circuit from that.
the wires that protrude from the hole are connected to the ring main at the fuse box which is on a 30 amp fuse.
all i have to hand is a connection box which is rated 20amps.
from what you say it looks like i'll be needing 4mm cable and presumably an upraded connection box maybe also 30 amp. does this sound like the best solution and can you give me any more tips about what sort of connection box would be best. i would also like to take the connection that goes out the the socket that already there a bot further along and put a double socket there.

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• fairbrother89
• 3 Nov 2010
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• fairbrother89
• 3 Nov 2010
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• fairbrother89
• 3 Nov 2010
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• fairbrother89
• 3 Nov 2010
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[dingbat]

I'm thinking:

Basic knowledge of electricity?
Basic understanding of circuit design and protection?
RCD protection?
Inspection, testing and certification?
Understanding of the Wiring Regulations?
Compliance with statutory regulations?

Consideration and/or understanding of all these seem to be lacking. In fact the only issue that appears to matter, most of the time, is this one:

Cost versus safety?

Of course, cost wins. Every time. Why would you pay somebody who knows all of the above stuff and is properly insured when you can lash it together on the basis that if it works and nobody dies it must be okay?
(Mind you, finding a decent domestic spark is altogether another issue.)

 

[fairbrother89]

i take your point. i am a terror for trying to save on costs. i don't want to "just lash it together" though. and of course my primary concern is safety. its a 50's wired flat that needs a complete rewire but in the meantime till i can afford to get that done i just want to extend the circuit and put a few more sockets in.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If you are after saving money, you would be best employing an electrician that can sign the work off. To DIY it would mean you will need to apply to building controls, notifying them of the work to be undertaken and a fee will be wanted for both the installation and the inspection and testing.
At the moment the cost in the area I am working is £112 for the installation(first fix/second fix) fee and a further £120 for the Inspection and Testing. So a total cost of £232 for both. That's before you have paid for materials and spent your time installing the circuits.
The area in which you live will be more!
A registered electrician can sign his work of for a couple of pounds.

 

[fairbrother89]

. To DIY it would mean you will need to apply to building controls, notifying them of the work to be undertaken and a fee will be wanted for both the installation and the inspection and testing.

thanks for the reply prenticeboy are you saying no-one can do diy electrical work at all, not even putting in some extra plugholes, without these inspections and fees applying ? i've not seen that on any other threads i've read.

 

[dingbat]

i take your point. i am a terror for trying to save on costs. i don't want to "just lash it together" though. and of course my primary concern is safety. its a 50's wired flat that needs a complete rewire but in the meantime till i can afford to get that done i just want to extend the circuit and put a few more sockets in.

Aaaargh!

This makes no sense at all - let me try to explain:

i don't want to "just lash it together" though.

But

am a terror for trying to save on costs.

and

its a 50's wired flat that needs a complete rewire

That's overdue for TWO rewires by now.

but in the meantime till i can afford to get that done i just want to extend the circuit and put a few more sockets in.

Which is a complete lash-up.

The very fact that you know it is dangerously out of date, you admit you don't know what you're doing, but you reckon you can just hang new bits off it is worrying. But it's not just you; if only we could have electric explosions hitting the news, it might stop this sort of thing.

You're going to do it anyway, I know, but I certainly will not be responsible for advising you how, because you won't listen and despite your protestation that "my primary concern is safety" your primary concern really is cost.

 

[fairbrother89]

you don't know that i'm going to do it anyway as you are not, unless you are on completely the wrong forum, a mind reader. true i might do it but if i get enough sensible advice advising me not to do it, i might not.

its not like i'm planning to rewire the whole gaff myself is it. there are tons of threads on this forum giving advice on this sort of minor work which is all i'm asking.

i've got one of these; http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...&action=search&isSearch=true&ts=1288796161188

can i insert the wire from the hole that you can see in my picture into the supply holes on the above mk item and run a 4mm cable out of the load holes and attach a few sockets along that cable. those wires are part of what is described as the ring main at my old style fusebox.

 

[fairbrother89]

or should i use something like this, as its rated 30 amps ?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=1193

remember i'm not "hanging bits off it" or "lashing it up" merely attempting to create an additional 1 double socket plus 1 single socket radial circuit in my kitchen

 

[riveralt]

its not like i'm planning to rewire the whole gaff myself is it. there are tons of threads on this forum giving advice on this sort of minor work which is all i'm asking.

What you're proposing is not minor work, especially if you don't have the basic knowledge to underpin your decisions. See dingbat's comments!!!

If you want to go down the diy route then fill in the form to building control and pay their set fees - use their knowledge to help you.

Alternatively, save yourself some money and get an electrician in to give you a quote.

As for your proposal from Maplin, not sure how a model tank, camera and other electronic equipement is revelant.

 

[electronicsuk]

The link is supposed to be to a 3-terminal 30A junction box, although it seems that the forum referral code breaks the link. In any case, it still sounds like hanging bits off an already heavily loaded circuit to me. If you want a temporary solution, run your fridge from an extension lead. Chances are that any semi-permanent solution will end up staying there for years, and is better avoided.

 

[ajrobb]

Electrical work in the kitchen (like you describe) falls under Part P of building regulations. For instance, 'simply adding a socket' in a kitchen can snowball into upgrading the consumer unit to add RCD protection to comply with current regulations. You can do all the work yourself, but you MUST notify local building control and pay their fee.

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part_p

 

[fairbrother89]

yes sorry about that link. how about this item http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK1130.html

i already run the fridge freezer from an extension cable plugged into the socket on the cooker switch unit.

i didn't think it was that big a deal re regs etc. the only reg. i'm aware of is the one about the cooker switch must be accessible.

as for the comment about i don't know what i'm doing, well why would anyone be asking for advice on a forum if they knew what they were doing. if you are implying that i don't know what i'm doing in general well thats just insulting "dingbat".