RCD Hell
- Thread starter mrmark
- Start date
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The moment we have all been waiting for...
Well I have some good news and some bad.
The good news being that the problem with the upstairs ring main, is now resolved.
After many hours removing and checking socket outlets and junction boxes, and narrowly avoiding lifting up my newly laid carpet in one of the bedrooms. The problem was eventually traced back to a switched fused connection unit above the cocker hud. Apparently the neutral was touching the metal back box and causing the RCD to trip as soon as that ring was connected to the CU.
As for the bad news... Well we are still having problems with some of the lights tripping the RCD. Several more hours where spent checking switches and various junction boxes in the loft, but to no avail.
It would also appear that on some occasions, when the cocker isolation switch is toggled, this will also trip the switch, but now always. Apparently this is sometimes a possible due to the nature of the beast.
As it stands now, the electrician has held up his hands in defeat, and we still have issues.
The next step is to source another sparky who is more proficient in resolving domestic installation issues. No disrespect to our current sparky, it’s just that we need to get this issue resolved soon, in case this is a dangerous fault.
Surely there most be engineers out there with equipment that can diagnose such things?
Anyone got any new ideas???
Well I have some good news and some bad.
The good news being that the problem with the upstairs ring main, is now resolved.
After many hours removing and checking socket outlets and junction boxes, and narrowly avoiding lifting up my newly laid carpet in one of the bedrooms. The problem was eventually traced back to a switched fused connection unit above the cocker hud. Apparently the neutral was touching the metal back box and causing the RCD to trip as soon as that ring was connected to the CU.
As for the bad news... Well we are still having problems with some of the lights tripping the RCD. Several more hours where spent checking switches and various junction boxes in the loft, but to no avail.
It would also appear that on some occasions, when the cocker isolation switch is toggled, this will also trip the switch, but now always. Apparently this is sometimes a possible due to the nature of the beast.
As it stands now, the electrician has held up his hands in defeat, and we still have issues.
The next step is to source another sparky who is more proficient in resolving domestic installation issues. No disrespect to our current sparky, it’s just that we need to get this issue resolved soon, in case this is a dangerous fault.
Surely there most be engineers out there with equipment that can diagnose such things?
Anyone got any new ideas???
B
Big_Spark
MrMark, firstly, DO NOT PAY THE GUY.
As a qualified professional it is incumbant upon him to leave an installation safe after he has carried out any work on it. Any faults should be rectified prior to payment, and should another Electrician be required to resolve this, the first should undertake payment of this electricians bill.
To me it sounds as if the Guy is not qualified to be doing the Job, not in the UK at least anyway. If he is then he is totally incompetent and should not be doing anything electrical and charging people good, hard earned money for it.
As a former self-employed Engineer, and a company director, I can sympathise with the view that we should all be paid for our work, however, payment should only be made for a completed and satisfactory job. You would never buy a car with two wheels missing, or a plane ticket that meant you sat on the floor, do not lower your standards in your home.
Such faults are potentially lethal and can and do start fires, fires that are often fatal.
I would suggest you contact a local NICEIC registered Contractor that someone else can recommend and get them to sort this mess out. It might be worth considering speaking to your local Tarding Standards dept about the Cowboy who has butchered your installation too.
Good Luck
As a qualified professional it is incumbant upon him to leave an installation safe after he has carried out any work on it. Any faults should be rectified prior to payment, and should another Electrician be required to resolve this, the first should undertake payment of this electricians bill.
To me it sounds as if the Guy is not qualified to be doing the Job, not in the UK at least anyway. If he is then he is totally incompetent and should not be doing anything electrical and charging people good, hard earned money for it.
As a former self-employed Engineer, and a company director, I can sympathise with the view that we should all be paid for our work, however, payment should only be made for a completed and satisfactory job. You would never buy a car with two wheels missing, or a plane ticket that meant you sat on the floor, do not lower your standards in your home.
Such faults are potentially lethal and can and do start fires, fires that are often fatal.
I would suggest you contact a local NICEIC registered Contractor that someone else can recommend and get them to sort this mess out. It might be worth considering speaking to your local Tarding Standards dept about the Cowboy who has butchered your installation too.
Good Luck
Have you tried searching for past posts about RCD problems?
Some electrical equipment generates a small leakage to earth, particularly cookers for example. So it might be that your system is running along on the verge of tripping. Then something else comes on or goes off and tips it over the edge. This could be more than one piece of equipment so it can be difficult to isolate. Do you still get tripping when everything has been disconnected?
So for example, the small imbalance when switching on your cooker might trip the RCD because the microwave has a standing 25mA leak to earth. Or the cooker is generating 25mA leakage which is not quite enough to trip but when it is switched on/off the force on the contacts inside the RCD is enough to trip sometimes, not others. Like rattling a dodgy key in a lock to make it work.
Bear in mind that something switched off might still have neutral connected. (switch only in live wire). And so a n-e fault can still affect your RCD while something is switched off.
A standing fault of around 30mA is more of a warning than a danger. If you had never installed a RCD you would never have known about it, never worried about it, and almost certainly never had any problem from it.
Now as to the lights.. What do you know? Has he checked that the circuit concerned is completely isolated from all the others. Like checking with a meter that if he disconnects at the CU, then the cables are not connected to anything or to each other? Does the lighting circuit have an earth? If not, has one been imported anywhere? I take it the lighting is not deliberately connected on the RCD side.
Some electrical equipment generates a small leakage to earth, particularly cookers for example. So it might be that your system is running along on the verge of tripping. Then something else comes on or goes off and tips it over the edge. This could be more than one piece of equipment so it can be difficult to isolate. Do you still get tripping when everything has been disconnected?
So for example, the small imbalance when switching on your cooker might trip the RCD because the microwave has a standing 25mA leak to earth. Or the cooker is generating 25mA leakage which is not quite enough to trip but when it is switched on/off the force on the contacts inside the RCD is enough to trip sometimes, not others. Like rattling a dodgy key in a lock to make it work.
Bear in mind that something switched off might still have neutral connected. (switch only in live wire). And so a n-e fault can still affect your RCD while something is switched off.
A standing fault of around 30mA is more of a warning than a danger. If you had never installed a RCD you would never have known about it, never worried about it, and almost certainly never had any problem from it.
Now as to the lights.. What do you know? Has he checked that the circuit concerned is completely isolated from all the others. Like checking with a meter that if he disconnects at the CU, then the cables are not connected to anything or to each other? Does the lighting circuit have an earth? If not, has one been imported anywhere? I take it the lighting is not deliberately connected on the RCD side.
Thanks for your help guys.
Damocles,
The sockets now seen to have been sorted... This was due to a neutral/earth leak on the connection unit connected to the cooker hud.
As for the lights, both circuits are wired into the NON RCD protected side to enable the lights to continue to work should the RCD trip for what ever reason. Just as well really...
As far as I know he has had all the switches apart and checked for faults. And as far as I’m aware he has checked that there are non borrowed neutrals and that both circuits are wired into the CU correctly.
I have also discovered something else today, along with my current faults.
That being, If I go into the garage and turn on one of the lights... Pop goes the RCD.
So now we have;
The switch in the kitchen
The switch in the hall way
The cooker isolation switch (NOT THE SAME SWITCH THAT CAUSED THE FAULT ON THE ring main)
And now the garage.
Could we potentially have a faulty RCD on our hands. It was tested on Saturday and only responded to 30mA or above.
On the other hand, as the lights aren’t even on the RCD side then why would it trip everything else that is, unless there was an interconnection somewhere...
Well I have looked up an approved contractor on the NICIEC website and will be contacting them tomorrow.
In the mean time, any other ideas???
Damocles,
The sockets now seen to have been sorted... This was due to a neutral/earth leak on the connection unit connected to the cooker hud.
As for the lights, both circuits are wired into the NON RCD protected side to enable the lights to continue to work should the RCD trip for what ever reason. Just as well really...
As far as I know he has had all the switches apart and checked for faults. And as far as I’m aware he has checked that there are non borrowed neutrals and that both circuits are wired into the CU correctly.
I have also discovered something else today, along with my current faults.
That being, If I go into the garage and turn on one of the lights... Pop goes the RCD.
So now we have;
The switch in the kitchen
The switch in the hall way
The cooker isolation switch (NOT THE SAME SWITCH THAT CAUSED THE FAULT ON THE ring main)
And now the garage.
Could we potentially have a faulty RCD on our hands. It was tested on Saturday and only responded to 30mA or above.
On the other hand, as the lights aren’t even on the RCD side then why would it trip everything else that is, unless there was an interconnection somewhere...
Well I have looked up an approved contractor on the NICIEC website and will be contacting them tomorrow.
In the mean time, any other ideas???
mrmark said:
unlikely to be faulty, since it did trip when tested. lights on the non-RCD side can cause the RCD to trip if the neutral is connected to the RCD. it could be possible (but very unlikely) that the neutral is shared with a socket.
lights dont go on an RCD unless you have a TT supply.
Take a look at the for reference. I will try to post a pic.
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