Removal of disused gas pipe from kitchen + gap in floorboard

[Fishwalker]

Hi,

We're in the middle of a kitchen replacement and ripped out the corner cabinets in our L-shaped kitchen, 105yr old terrace over the weekend in prep for our fitter. We knew there was a missing floorboard along the external wall, as have been living with its drafts for 7.5yrs! But we can now see it and just above runs a gas pipe for cookers, which we've never used as have electric and keeping so for new kitchen.

I'm trying to hire a gas engineer right now to see about cutting the gas pipe back to the left door step wall and capping it so we can board over fully as we started too down the left of the door and so we can fit the flush Ikea units we have waiting, which sit on a wall rail (need to sort electrics too).

My question is, why could this floorboard gap have been left, as it just pumps cold air up from under the house? Was it required once for gas ventilation or just shoddy finishing on past owners?

It's also a shame we can't just cut it back ourselves as it is a disused pipe at the end of the day not that I'm so stupid but I'm wondering how much this is going to cost us? Mounting costs you see. We live in Hull. I guess I'll soon find out on that last one though.

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[Burnerman]

More than likely, the previous people simply couldn't be bothered to sort it.....out of sight out of mind etc.
The gas man won't take long but will charge for travel time etc.
John

 

[denso13]

It's also a shame we can't just cut it back ourselves as it is a disused pipe

Do you mean it isn't connected to gas or it is but just not used?

 

[ree]

As above, if its disconnected, not merely abandoned, then how do you know its disconnected?

The floor board may have been left off during an earlier attempt to slide pipes or cables below the floor. Or, it may have been pulled because of damp damage. If you pull another short length of board you can examine below floor for adequate ventilation, and see if the joist tails are sound?

The elec outlets and cooker control need lifting above work top level. Cables to be run in approved positions and metal capped.

 

[Fishwalker]

Had a Gas Safe fitter out this morning and he has safely removed the pipe back to the under stairs location and completely removed it from the kitchen + given me a certificate of work done and tested the gas supply, so I'm happy with that. Only cost £50.

He said the gap in the floorboard was probably just laziness and so did my kitchen fitter, so we can seal it up now but I will take a look down with a torch to check joists, although I suspect I won't like what I find, being such an old house. Main thing is the floor feels firm. It's just when we run the washing machine, which is currently standing over a bit of a rotten board coming across from in front of a previous stop cock leak, it vibrates terribly and you have to stand on the board to stop the shaking!

Still trying to get an electrician out for next week but will ask if they can move the boxes up above worktop height. I asked my fitter about the massive isolator box as usually they are square shaped and he said we need that size because of it being a 40amp fuse so will be pretty unsightly to have above the worktop.

 

[Agile]

You see you had no need to fear the cost!

Most engineers are perfectly reasonable.

That's as long as you avoid the callout companies!

Tony

 

[Madrab]

Result

You can install much slimmer and attractive looking 32A DP isolators above the units with a cooker connection outlet below level but I'm sure your spark will advise.

The switch needs to be easily accessible, not in a cupboard behind stuff, etc.

 

[Fishwalker]

Managed to get a really great sparky on the case the day after last post who did my mum's IKEA kitchen and he sent his teammate round who has really gone the extra mile for us. I only knew I wanted the 40amp cable extending for new induction hob and oven but he completely ripped out all the old wiring and checked my appliance specs before installing a 10mm and 6mm cable under the floorboards and moving power sockets to better locations + putting both an oven and hob isolator switch above the worktop for us near the appliances. For 6hrs over 2 days inc connection of appliances + dishwasher they've quoted £168 inc vat despite me asking if it's gone up since coming out on the job! We'll see when I get the invoice I guess!

Meanwhile we've tried filling in the chasing he also did but couldn't finish as low and behold we found rotten joists and floorboards instead when we took out the sink so have spent all wkend dealing with that. Anyway fitter comes tomorrow!

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[Dan Robinson]

Guys like that are the very reason this forum tends to advocate the smaller independent over nationals and franchises.

Keep his number and give it to all who ask for a decent tradesmen.

Assuming of course the job was done properly

 

[Fishwalker]

Right I need advice and essay ahead warning!

Today was pretty stressful re: the kitchen fitter who gave me the impression he was plumber too as he only said we needed to hire a sparky.

It started with him not knowing, which pipe was for the hot feed in the kitchen. I panicked at that and momentarily forgot, which it was myself till I got my head again.

Then he said he was switching the water supply off to start work on the pipes, but when I asked what he was doing about the stop cock being accessible, he said he couldn't move the stop cock, as I'd need to get a proper plumber in for that, as it was a serious business and I needed to do it asap if I was going to, before he fitted the units. This is after I've had him round twice to discuss what needed doing and showed him the pipes and he never said the stop cock couldn't be handled by himself. He said he would run the pipes below the units, through the legs and I was confident that was all ok. He said he could notch out the sink unit though and rotate the stop cock to the left so you can turn it on/off through the sink unit (the built in dishwasher prevents access in its current position). If I didn't mention this, it would have been inaccessible!!!

So I leave him to it saying notch the unit and that I was popping to the shop. On my way I suddenly think, he hasn't turned the boiler off! My OH said make sure he does, so I rang him and got him to go do that but that caused stress (I'm very pregnant by the way so this is not good for me). Then I got back and he went off for some plumbing parts and I saw all our nice newly placed hardboards where wet near the pipes.

We've replaced them and the floorboards below and the joist this weekend as mentioned in posts above and we have lived with horrific damp for nearly 8 years, so I know I can't risk the new boards getting damp. I started paper towelling it up and put the dehumidifier on the area. My OH reassured me on the phone that it would be fine and dry up and that when you switch the water off, as it drains, a bit of water does come out, but why wasn't this guy ready for that? He's used no dust sheets so far and didn't have a bucket ready for that obviously by the amount of water on the boards. Tonight he left wood dust everywhere and I'm not supposed to breath stuff like that in.

Next I try to just leave him to it but told him to run any major cutting or decisions by me first. I then hear the circular saw going and am kacking myself worrying about my lovely new oak worktops but just try and bear the stress thinking it'll be fine. (I didn't want to scare him while he was sawing after all.) I later come down and he's installed the hob and sink in situ and they look straight, though my fridge freezer has scratches all down the side you can see and is touching the edge of the rough cut worktop in places. I say I'm sure this wasn't like that before but he says it is nothing he has done and was really washing his hands of it. I know my OH has moved it around a lot and think what can I do, but by the tight space it's in, and him doing it by himself, damage could easily have been done.

I leave it again and then there is an issue with getting my oven into the unit with drawer beneath and hob above, which I'm almost led to believe won't fit, even though it's only 1cm between hob and oven higher then the ikea models, e.g. 0.5cm for each unit.

So I'm freaking out, as all the appliances are out of their wrappers, which if it had been me, I would have been so careful about but he's lugging them around like they didn't cost £850 for both +£300 for the dishwasher.

I actually had to sit on my gym ball and bounce about a bit to calm down as my baby was jigging around in me due to the stress.

After a bit I went in to see him, after hearing him curse the situation and asked how it was going and low and behold, he said "fine" and he had it all in with the drawer running smooth. So I was relieved a bit but still my confidence was shaken.

Then later, as we haven't managed to get the worktops oiled in time (using hard wax oil) or on the bottom side at least as I got the sides mixed up, I said we need to take the sink and appliances back out to flip the top so I can oil it tonight and what do I find... the most jagged cuts you've ever seen! No router was used here! [See pic's.] Luckily the hob fits in and covers this and so does the sink but still, where is the pride!? And I just thought of the websites i'd seen, with their perfectly cut out and sanded hob cut outs and sinks! I'm a bit annoyed about this but can't file it it down as need to oil it now for tomorrow and if I do anything it makes me the last to touch it if I make it too big.

Finally and this is quite major. I came in the kitchen tonight, (after getting home from picking up OH) to see water had leaked behind the sink unit and within the dishwasher space and seemingly from the stop cock! OH looked and the olive has gone above the tap, which is unsurprising as he has turned the handle 90 degrees in order that we can turn it off through the roughly cut notch in the sink unit.

My OH tried tightening it to see if the dripping would stop. despite me wanting him not to as then he is last to touch it but the olive is defo gone. We have had a plumber out to repair this type of problem before and it has been fine since.

As the fitter had done this, I called him straight up and explained what had happened and asked if he could get a plumber out to fix it, as he was last to touch it (in a polite and apologetic tone). He said he couldn't get one for tomorrow (like there are no other plumbers in the world except those he knows) and he will sort it out with a new olive tomorrow, as it's above the stop cock tap handle so ok, we just need to turn the street stop cock off first.

SO, now I can hear him cursing the job even more, as well as me and especially Ikea kitchens and I'm seriously putting my baby under stress with this BUT, he did lead me to believe he was a plumber and the fact that he won't call one out to look at this when once the dishwasher goes in, we won't easily be able to access the stop cock, apart from through the notch in the sink unit, is seriously worrying me. Baby doing flips as I write!

I need to keep this guy on side anyway and I really want to end up recommending him and I admit I do find it hard to trust any tradesperson I get in, as it always starts off fab but ends with things I'm unhappy with (like isolator switches not being installed for a fan by a sparky, or a plumber putting his chisel through my floor joist to prove to me it's rotten and a plasterer leaving giant tiger claw trowel marks in my skimmed wall that I have to sand!).

I know I've really gone on but thoughts anyone and how to handle this? I'm self-employed myself and need insurance for my job, so he should have public liability but the fact that he seems on the defence when I ask him to resolve something worries me and stupidly... I have no contract, as he's a one man band and I trusted him + I don't normally ask tradespeople for them as never have major work done like this!

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[Tibbot]

Haven't read your essay as it makes a Puritan's sermon look like at footnote.

Suffice to say, from the pictures, that regards the plumbing and electrics, you appear to have secured the services of an idiot.

 

[Fishwalker]

Cool well thanks for that and I'm sure I deserve that response Maybe I'll edit it down but I had to get it all off my chest. The sparky hasn't actually finished his bit. He's back to connect appliances tomorrow and put face plates on sockets/isolators etc but it's us that need to plaster the back boxes back in first and as my OH works 40+ hrs a week and I'm out of action, it's going to take a bit longer. OH is madly oiling worktop and plastering as it is after a tiring day and has a chest infection.

 

[RF Lighting]

Do not plaster the electrics in yet. The way the cable is run to the hob? Is dangerous and against regs.

Also in your earlier pictures it appears the two twin sockets side by side are not level with one another.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Glad I put a caveat at the end of my post last night.

That is a flirking abortion.


The less said about Idea Kitchens the better though.

However that doesn't excuse the sate of the work carried out.

 

[Fishwalker]

RF Lighting - can you be more specific?

All the wires are isolated and off at the Fuse box currently and he hasn't put face plates on as said the fitter needed to install worktops first. He measured up for the isolator switches and checked his book and said it was just in for where the hob would go, if we started the hob 100mm from wall to right edge of hob. Couldn't go less as the back door would be in the way and he couldn't move the isolator switches any further left, as there is the mains water pipes butted up there. There is no where else accessible for them either due to size of kitchen, unless they went behind the fridge and then you'd have to pull that out to access and all too late now.

The two sockets are level on the left... maybe it's the angle of the photo and the left one is behind the fridge anyway.

I called out a reputable local firm to do the electrical work, who my mum used too and when Ikea fitted her kitchen, they were happy with work done. Also current guy completely ripped out old wiring specifically to put it in correctly and has run it all neatly under the floorboards to the isolator switches at correct amperages, ready for connection tomorrow.

Also, what do 'sparkys' do when they have to install wiring in a one bed flat with sink and oven all in one unit? Say no, it's against reg's? Surely you have to work with the space to a certain extent? No? Or maybe you're just supposed to build an extension?

Anyway, I'm obviously a glutton for punishment here but did I mention I'm already stressed out and pregnant and could do with some kinder feedback perhaps guys? I do use this forum a lot as it's generally good.

Re: Ikea kitchen's, there really is no need to start, as fitters I realise often hate fitting them but customers actually for the most part love them and again my mum had one and a friend and both have given fab feedback.