Request for DNO to move meter indoors?

[mbga9pgf]

Currently have an external meter box fitted to our property, which, to be honest, is pretty darned ugly. Its of the recessed type.

Now, we are on an 80Amp supply TT earthed, and I am looking to get this changed to TNCS with a 100Amp supply. I have had problems with the house with voltage drop which I strongly suspect is the result of undersized wiring from the overhead cables. with the 40 amp shower running, we are getting a 3% volt drop at the CU isolator. It manifests itself as the LV halogen bulbs dimming when we turn on the shower. I also have the CU located in the same meter box, I need to install a 60A fused isolator (plus associated 2 pole henley blocks) and a second meter for a submain and there is insufficient space.

The property is 300 metres back from the main road. We have gates which are locked when the property is vacant. I am about to apply for the above changes and am looking to request the meter box is moved indoors, to a cupboard on the 1st floor, directly in front of the supply pole and would mean the supply cable would need cutting and routeing through the wall. This would make rewiring the CU much easier, as the house circuit wires are currently routed up the wall cavity (preventing us from having the cavity wall done) from the existing meter box. It will also mean that instead of having 2 SWA cables routed down the wall (to meter) then back up as a 3-metre meter tail from the meter to the new CU location, we can terminate the cabling direct from the pole to the house.

Are there any regs which state that meters cannot be located indoors? My current rental dating back to the 1980s has an indoor meter, apart from issues regarding the supplier having access to the meter for readings? I cant think of any safety issues, and, bearing in mind the meter is currently 200 metres behind electric gate access, its not as if the supplier will have access in our absence anyhow?

 

[Adam_151]

and, bearing in mind the meter is currently 200 metres behind electric gate access, its not as if the supplier will have access in our absence anyhow?

There are some types of network faults which can occur (or faults on your installation) which require the DNO to get access to your cut-out, this is usually done by requesting the assistance of the local police force to 'gain access'. It is an inconvience for both parties if this is harder than it needs to be!

On commericial or industrial sites were transformers or HV switches are located in the customers buildings, etc they normally have procedures for access, such as the key to the room locked inside a metal box on the wall that can be opened with a key the DNO carry, or on gates etc, a pin that has the customers padlock on one side and the DNOs on the other and removing either will allow it to be withdrawn

 

[flameport]

The chances of getting an 80A supply changed to a 100A is minimal. Even if you do, they will just change the fuse in the cutout.

3% volt drop isn't a problem, and a change to TNCS won't make any difference to that. A drop in voltage when a large appliance such as an electric shower is switched on is inevitable.

Extremely unlikely any DNO would agree to moving a meter from an outside cabinet to inside the property. It has nothing to do with regulations or safety - they simply won't want their meter inside the house.

 

[mbga9pgf]

The chances of getting an 80A supply changed to a 100A is minimal. Even if you do, they will just change the fuse in the cutout.

They will need to change the meter too, its only rated at 80A. They have only installed 16mm cable from the overhead pole, so that will have to be uprated anyhow. We need to get the supply uprated to meet diversity and have an electric cooker installed in an annexe to the house. Unfortunately, 80A wont cut it.

3% volt drop isn't a problem, and a change to TNCS won't make any difference to that. A drop in voltage when a large appliance such as an electric shower is switched on is inevitable.

Was more interested in a decent earthing solution as opposed to a metal spike in the ground! A voltage drop can be expected, but it was my understanding that there was a linit as to the supply voltage. Now, as I see it, if the DNO cannot support a 80A supply from their power lines due to undersized cable, as the customer, that is their issue, not mine. Especially as the issue originates at their side of the supply fuse.

Extremely unlikely any DNO would agree to moving a meter from an outside cabinet to inside the property. It has nothing to do with regulations or safety - they simply won't want their meter inside the house.

Frustrating. Thanks for the feedback though.

 

[tonyelectric]

Your DNO will probably object to this on the grounds that it would in their eyes be retrograde to move it inside, they would consider it cosmetic and several DNOs are currently refusing cosmetic moves (SEC are) unless it is to put the meter outside.

To move the meter inside would involve making an underground joint in the incomer and running concentric cable unprotected (by any type of fuse) to your first floor location, this they will not like, in all probability they will require a cut out outside the property that still leaves you an ugly box.

Its worth asking about the incomer rating, if the incomer is up to it they can simply replace the fuse (your tails may then need upgrading), also worth asking if smart metering is available that dials in to the suppliers computer to download readings - no more meter man

My comments are based on years of dealing with DNOs here and in Herefordshire.

 

[tonyelectric]

Edit:

To move the meter inside would involve making an underground joint in the incomer and running concentric cable unprotected

Ignor that comment I didn't read your OP carefully enough, you have overhead TT

TNCS is certainly better earth wise

 

[mbga9pgf]

Your DNO will probably object to this on the grounds that it would in their eyes be retrograde to move it inside, they would consider it cosmetic and several DNOs are currently refusing cosmetic moves (SEC are) unless it is to put the meter outside.

To move the meter inside would involve making an underground joint in the incomer and running concentric cable unprotected (by any type of fuse) to your first floor location, this they will not like, in all probability they will require a cut out outside the property that still leaves you an ugly box.

Its worth asking about the incomer rating, if the incomer is up to it they can simply replace the fuse (your tails may then need upgrading), also worth asking if smart metering is available that dials in to the suppliers computer to download readings - no more meter man

My comments are based on years of dealing with DNOs here and in Herefordshire.

Cheers tony, I am over the border by ledbury in gloucestershire, our DNO is EOn.

We are on overhead supply only, so no need for the underground joint. I think the problem with the volt drop is the incomer from the pole to the meter is under rated; if we go up to 100A I think we definately will need an upgrade to 25mm.

To be honest, the cosmetics of the box doesnt bother me. What bothers me is the thought of chasing out for either 3X25mm cables in conduit, or the 15 twin and earths coming from the CU, when a more elegant solution exists. I hear PVC doesnt do too well when coated in cavity wall foam, which we need to get done this year,combined with the lack of space for an additional meter and 60A fused isolator for the annexe submain.

 

[flameport]

Now, as I see it, if the DNO cannot support a 80A supply from their power lines due to undersized cable, as the customer, that is their issue, not mine.

Unfortunately doesn't work like that.

If you want a larger supply, and upgrades are required to the network, then you will have to pay for it.

 

[tonyelectric]

Know it well, I hail from Bishops Frome just the other side of Ledbury, it was MEB in my day.

If you have an old type separate wire incomers to two porcelain insulators you may get that upgraded for free, but if its more modern I doubt they will do it, the ESQCR (Electricity Supply Quality & Continuity Regs) specify the mains voltage to be in the range of 216-259 (or 260, without looking..) so if you are no lower than 216 they wont be too worried, the further you go from the substation the lower the voltage gets.

 

[mbga9pgf]

Now, as I see it, if the DNO cannot support a 80A supply from their power lines due to undersized cable, as the customer, that is their issue, not mine.

Unfortunately doesn't work like that.

If you want a larger supply, and upgrades are required to the network, then you will have to pay for it.

Shame they cant support the 80A current that they have installed currently! No probs if I have to pay to upgrade, thats fair enough, but bearing in mind I will be suffering around a 6% volt drop at the CU at max load leaves me feel cheated somewhat.

If you have an old type separate wire incomers to two porcelain insulators you may get that upgraded for free, but if its more modern I doubt they will do it, the ESQCR (Electricity Supply Quality & Continuity Regs) specify the mains voltage to be in the range of 216-259 (or 260, without looking..) so if you are no lower than 216 they wont be too worried, the further you go from the substation the lower the voltage gets.

Its bang on 230 when measured with no load at the meter. As soon as there is any significant load (>40A) it dips quite significantly. Its the old style you talk about, 2 seperate wires, all I can do is ask as to the options when the engineer comes around to check it out I suppose. I think I can generate voltages <216V by putting on the shower and the oven at the same time, I might demo it when they pop round.

 

[ricicle]

Cheers tony, I am over the border by ledbury in gloucestershire, our DNO is EOn.

Not a million miles from me then

 

[tonyelectric]

Those old incoming wires are typical of the network around there, probably got the remnants of green fibre insulation on them Bromyard still has 4 spaced wires on iron poles up the main street, MEB didn't beleive in maintenance.

They are probably only 16mm if you are lucky, do you have a pole transformer

If its below 216 they have to do something, that classifies as an emergency (voltage goes down, current in their wiring goes up = bad)

 

[flameport]

If its below 216 they have to do something

Such as increase it to 250V with no load, so you can enjoy replacing lamps in your house on a weekly basis.

 

[ricicle]

(voltage goes down, current in their wiring goes up = bad)

 

[mbga9pgf]

Transformer is a few poles up on the property boundary, think it supplies 3 properties.

I was hoping if there was an issue, they would uprate cable from the pole, not up the voltage at the tranny!

Might be me being naieve though!