Saunier Duval boiler nearly killed my plumber

[Dvickersaff]

I have a Saunier Duval Enviroplus F24e. 10 days ago we turned the heating on and it had a fault. My engineer determined that it was the pump which was able to supply hot water but could not manage the pressure required for the central heating. He ordered a new pump as a priority due to my having an 8 week old baby. Saunier Duval forgot to send it and I had to wait past the weekend.

Once it finally arrived my engineer fitted it and whilst on the phone following instructions from the Saunier Duval technical team placed his hand on the sealed pump unit to check it was running. He was thrown across the room from an electric shock coming from the pump housing which also blew the PCB. Saunier Duval have refused to send a replacement pump and PCB unless paid for and won't send an engineer unless we pay £220 booking fee. I have complained and am awaiting their response tomorrow when someone hopefully more senior can deal with this.

Aside from being a reportable event the HSE as it could have killed my engineer, I am not prepared to pay more for faulty parts or damage caused to my boiler by the supply of faulty parts. Is there anything I can say to Saunier Duval to force them to fix a problem that has been caused by the supply of their faulty part?

 

[petit_pablo]

HSE wont give a stuff as no-one got killed.

Pump shouldnt have been live but He shouldnt have blindly stuck his hand into a live boiler either. Easy to say but we've all do it.

Has the pump been proven to be faulty or was it how it was fitted? Cant see SD shifting their stance on this.

 

[Onetap]

HSE wont give a stuff as no-one got killed.

Pump shouldnt have been live but He shouldnt have blinly stuck his hand into a live boiler either. Easy to say but we've all do it.

Shouldn't the pump body be connected to earth, so that a fault that might have made the body live should have blown the MCB/fuse/RCD?

It sounds more like your dodgy wiring nearly killed your plumber, you should get it checked ASAP. I'd check your cover for personal injury on the house insurance while you're at it.

 

[dcawkwell]

An old boiler like that and any appliance needs to be treated with respect.
If the boiler has a fault then it is wise to proceed with caution.
An exposed live wire or anything can be at fault.

Your engineer has only himself to blame.

You wouldn't be expecting Ford to supply spare parts to fix an old
car if a bare wire caused a short and blew up your alternator or engine
management unit?

 

[HERTS P&D]

I don't blame the faulty boiler, I blame the faulty engineer.

Andy

 

[Dvickersaff]

Engineer followed standard isolating procedures before installation and only once installed and running did he place his hand on the pump casing to check the pump was running. Something he was asked to check on the phone by SD. The pump is a completely sealed unit with just a plug to the PCB and the housing should not be live. No one died but had my engineer been hospitalised then it would have been a reportable event. He was quite shaken.

My engineer is convinced the pump is faulty as everything else was working and it was the only thing he was replacing. I found SD to be less than helpful!

 

[Dvickersaff]

The boiler is only 6 years old!

 

[dcawkwell]

Engineer followed standard isolating procedures before installation and only once installed and running did he place his hand on the pump casing to check the pump was running. Something he was asked to check on the phone by SD. The pump is a completely sealed unit with just a plug to the PCB and the housing should not be live. No one died but had my engineer been hospitalised then it would have been a reportable event. He was quite shaken.

My engineer is convinced the pump is faulty as everything else was working and it was the only thing he was replacing. I found SD to be less than helpful!

At a wild guess he probably wired the pump in wrong.
live to neutral and neutral to live would probably do it.
This is called natural selection.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Could be a number of things but with a baby in the house I would strongly recommend you get the wiring tested and checked by a qualified electrician. Regardless of whether the new part was faulty or not, the current should have been taken straight to earth via the earth connection on the boiler and as a result either tripped the circuits or blown a fuse.

Your engineer has acted as the earth here. He survived, but should another metal part in the property become live. and your child touch it, your child would not survive. For all your sakes, get it checked please

 

[Dvickersaff]

I can't say for sure but let's assume the boiler is earthed correctly and the pump was wired correctly...

Would there be any other reason for the pump casing to go live?

 

[shambolic]

You do know reversing live and neutral to pump motor would have no effect and it will run ok.
Sounds more like a live to earth short

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I'm not an electrician, may well be worth asking on the electrical forum for more specialised advice, but a fault within the pump could make the casing live. However I am pretty sure that electrical potential should have been removed via the earth connection and the power cut off by either a fuse blowing or if a R.C.D device is fitted at the consumer unit then within a fraction of a second. It should not have given your engineer a belt

Whilst I am not denying there could be a fault within the new pump I am more concerned as to why it earthed through your engineer and not via the earth connection in the property. You could have potentially dangerous household electrics, and a proper check is a small price to pay for all your safety![/i]

 

[dcawkwell]

Went to a boiler fault a couple of weeks back.

Boiler not working.

First check only 70 volts at the mains connection.

Wired it to household plug fired up no problem.

Household wiring does fail.

Similarly in my own house the immersion heater cable burn out
in the switch downstairs. Just time and age.

 

[Dvickersaff]

Have checked with my engineer who says the pump was wired correctly and the boiler earthed. He has been servicing my boiler for a couple of years now and over time has probably rebuilt it.... Never getting a Saunier Duval in future.... He reckons never had a problem with electrics before and I've not had any other issues in house. Still may be worth a check!

 

[JohnD]

if the boiler is properly earthed, or if the gas and water piping in the house is metal and correctly bonded, it should be impossible or extremely difficult for the pump housing to become live.

It might be possible if there are multiple faults in the home, but the UK has belt-and-braces rules to prevent this sort of thing happening. For example, if I were to connect L wire to E terminal in my CH pump, the 5A fuse in the FCU would immediately blow, and so would the MCB for the circuit, and the RCD would trip (though it's a toss-up which would go fastest) since the boiler and all the pipes are bonded to the MET in the consumer unit. They are all bonded again inside the boiler.

I don't believe the boiler is capable of causing the earthing and bonding of the house and pipework to become faulty. Your allegation that SD sent a faulty part which caused this problem is most unlikely to be true. My money's on a faulty domestic electrical installation. Either that or an object such as a screwdriver came into contact with some live electrical terminal

When you know more about the combination of circumstances that caused this dangerous event, I'd be interested to hear more.