Solar Panel (s)

[Harden Long]

Probably been done to death but as a newbie wondering if you could advise
I am putting in an unvented system and also want to put a solar "panel" (??tubes) in

Can someone steer me in the direction to learn more-costs/pitfalls/things to specifically discuss with with my C.H engineer


Thanks

 

[Fluffster]

Have a look at the clear skies website. You will need a double coil cylinder for starters.
Pete

 

[wilhelm]

or click on this

 

[gas4you]

If you are doing it to save money then forget it. If you are doing to help the environment and hopefully save a little on running costs then good on you.

Tubes from a good manufacturer are slightly more efficient, especially in the winter. Twin coil cylinder at best, seperate pre-heat as a decent second choice.

I'm now seriously thinking of dropping out of solar installations as thy are not what the hype cracks them up to be in relation to what you will save and payback period. Government now wants to charge solar installers £1800 to join a competent installer scheme, then £450 / year afterwards, along with a pitiful grant system.

Until they offer 50% grant like in Scandinavian countries it will not be financially worth it.

Now I wonder where all that airline passenger extra green tax is going and the 4 x 4 tax

Oh I know, to make up for lack of income from smokers now they are not allowed to smoke anywhere

 

[Dan Robinson]

Oh you cynical git...


But very correct....

 

[Agile]

Probably been done to death but as a newbie wondering if you could advise
I am putting in an unvented system and also want to put a solar "panel" (??tubes) in

Can someone steer me in the direction to learn more-costs/pitfalls/things to specifically discuss with with my C.H engineer


Thanks

Unless your CH engineer has done a solar course or is very knowledgeble then its not worth discussing any solar with him.

If he has then take his advice unless ( like most consumers here ) you think that all plumbers are uneducated idiots!

I think you may find that Clear Skys has been superceeded. Try Low Carbon!

Tony

 

[Paul Barker]

The Alpha Solar Smart is only one option among many but you will get a far greater payback using

" The Alpha GasSaver incorpoating Zenex technology is an innovative ‘top box’ that sits inbetween the boiler and the flue. It re-uses flue gasses to pre-heat incoming mains water and therefore reduces gas consumption when the water is eventually brought in to the boiler to be heated for use. GasSaver also reduces instances of pluming as gases exiting the flue terminal are significantly cooler.

The GasSaver is maintenence free and compatible with all of our system and combination boiler ranges. In tests, savings of 50% of annual gas costs for heating hot water."

However it doesn't give you such an interesting one upmanship hand at the cheese and wine parties.

A combination of solarsmart and gassaver is the ultimate hot water weapon.

 

[Agile]

The GasSaver is maintenence free and compatible with all of our system and combination boiler ranges. In tests, savings of 50% of annual gas costs for heating hot water."

Paul, all I can say is what nonsense!

A 50% saving would be possible if the boiler is only 50% efficient in the first place.

Anybody with any inkling of physics will see that the scope for additional savings on a 93% efficient boiler is just 7% !!!

There is another problem! The device ONLY operates on DHW and that is only 30% of the average gas use! So the 3-4% saving it will give is reduced to about 1% as it does not operate on CH.

What is Alpha coming to when they make such wild claims?

Tony

 

[Paul Barker]

I can't argue with you Tony as I don't know how any of the numbers you and Alpha are banding about relate to facts.

The sedbuk figure is itself fantastic.

There are lies dam lies and statistics.

But what I do believ is that the gassaver is a better investment in the UK than a solarsmart. The pair in combination would be nice to own, but at todays fuel prices nobodies solar hot water system would stand up to scrutiny of a capital projects decision in industry. The capital investment would be better spent on other projects with a better npv or rate of return.

The same can be said for installing a band a or band b boiler unnecessarily when the existing boiler is functioning reliably.

In the case of replacing a dead or uneconomic to repair boiler I would be perfectly happy to decide on a band a boiler, but I wouldn't have trv's at home, unless I was selling the house to satisfy a solicitor, and I wouldn't change my cylinder.

 

[micky p]

The Alpha Solar Smart is only one option among many but you will get a far greater payback using

" The Alpha GasSaver incorpoating Zenex technology is an innovative ‘top box’ that sits inbetween the boiler and the flue. It re-uses flue gasses to pre-heat incoming mains water and therefore reduces gas consumption when the water is eventually brought in to the boiler to be heated for use. GasSaver also reduces instances of pluming as gases exiting the flue terminal are significantly cooler.

The GasSaver is maintenence free and compatible with all of our system and combination boiler ranges. In tests, savings of 50% of annual gas costs for heating hot water."

However it doesn't give you such an interesting one upmanship hand at the cheese and wine parties.

A combination of solarsmart and gassaver is the ultimate hot water weapon.

The only downside to the Alpha solarsmart that i can see, is that the hot water store is only 80 litre or might be 50 litre not sure on exact amount, but the point is when the sunshines you want to collect a lot more than that. I currently have a 300litre oso solar cylinder and 1 day it might be completely heated from bottom to top and then the next day the sun doesn't shine at all and you might not get any solar heat, therefore there will probably be some heated hot water left from the day before avalable for use.
Now you have to correctly size the cylinder to the household, because if the cyclinder is full of hot water that isn't being used then the solar panels have nowhere for the heat to be pumped too and go into stagnation and no use until they cool down (probably at the end of the day) but my point being i think alpha could of offered a larger cylinder that maybe could of got a bath full of water out of and still be left with some.

 

[Paul Barker]

It's 90 litre and it's sized to suit the panel, using industry standard data. But you may know better than the rest of the industry.

 

[micky p]

It's 90 litre and it's sized to suit the panel, using industry standard data. But you may know better than the rest of the industry.

Just my opinion thats all. I have seen better solar systems on the market thats all i am saying. Good effort by alpha but most of these manufactures who have just jumped on the band wagon have very little experience in comparision to the likes of other manufactures which have been in the game for 25 years +.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

Probably been done to death but as a newbie wondering if you could advise
I am putting in an unvented system and also want to put a solar "panel" (??tubes) in

Can someone steer me in the direction to learn more-costs/pitfalls/things to specifically discuss with with my C.H engineer


Thanks

A solar thermal store is the best.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

I can't argue with you Tony as I don't know how any of the numbers you and Alpha are banding about relate to facts.

The sedbuk figure is itself fantastic.

There are lies dam lies and statistics.

But what I do believ is that the gassaver is a better investment in the UK than a solarsmart. The pair in combination would be nice to own, but at todays fuel prices nobodies solar hot water system would stand up to scrutiny of a capital projects decision in industry. The capital investment would be better spent on other projects with a better npv or rate of return.

The GasSaver incorporating Zenex technology does claw back wasted heat. 93% equates to CH and DHW. DHW itself is usually less efficient to heat as higher temperatures are required. The Zenex does make DHW more efficient indeed.

The 94% may be the scale where the latent heat is incorporated which runs up to approx 109%. Only sensible heat is on the 0 to 100% scale.

 

[Gasguru]

I'd be amazed if the gas saver actually saved any real energy at all when fitted to the Alpha or Viesmann boilers given the complex construction of the unit (have you seen the insides?) and the significant energy used in manufacture.

A typical non-condensing boiler drops the flue gas temperature from say 1000 Centigrade to perhaps 120 to 150 Centigrade. A fully condensing Band A boiler will drop that down to say 40 or 50 Centigrade improving efficiency by 10 - 15%. The gas saver will drop the flue gas down to 10 Centigrade at best. The extra efficiency will only be a few %.

Unfortunately customers and installers take the brochures at face value and believe the hype.

I suspect most sales of Zenex products are to self builders who need to gain a few percent extra efficiency in order to help their SAP rating where the substantial cost of the unit is immaterial.

Don't forget the cost of scale reducers and blending valves (that often sieze up). The unit will in many cases require a PRV - and for a reliable valve these are not cheap. Read the small print for the warranty.