speedfit

[Softus]

Erm, who are you asking to check the rules? And why?

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You, because you said: "My name is private and not published on the forum. For you to publish it would be a breach of forum rules"

Have you checked the forum rules, and did you find one that forbids the use of names?

Mod Rupert

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The signup page says the following:

[code:1]As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

<snip>

By clicking Register below you agree to be bound by these conditions.[/code:1]

And rule 15 says the following:

[code:1]15) This is a (privately owned, U.K. based) forum

By posting on this site you have been deemed to have read and understood and agree to abide by the forum rules.[/code:1]

it has lucid arguments about the pros and cons of copper and plastic.

Yeah, right. (end of Mod stuff)

This sarcasm does not befit a moderator.

 

[Agile]

The rest of us have come to like the style and humour of the new mod Rupert.

Unlike some of the others he usually explains his actions!

Tony


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Thank you for your kind words, Tony.

The backbiting I explained to Softus yesterday was members
trying to goad each other with things like "fool" "insane"
"narrow-minded and out-of-date" "your high horse " "elitist
and snobbish" "Is it your time of the month."

I am pleased that some members have calmed down and
edited some of their more impetuous posts, otherwise the
thread is at risk of being closed.

Mod Rupert
+++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[ChrisR]

WHen I did NVQ2 and we were all doing out cental heating mockup, the college thought it would save them money long term on fittings if they used Curprofit pushfit, which was supplied to them very cheaply in the hope that students would love it.

Those of us using endfeed had no trouble, but the guys using Cuprofit had several leaks each!

 

[Agile]

The professional verson of Cuprofit is Tectite which even I was very happy with. When my usual supplier B&G were bought out by Travis (?) and became City Plumbing, they ditched it.

I nearly ditched City but the latest manager is being very nice to me ( as I give him a lot of technical advice ) so I still go there.

Currently I dont even know of a major merchant who sells Tectite.

Tony

 

[ChrisR]

The professional verson of Cuprofit is Tectite

Er, no. They are made by different companies
Cuprofit by IBP- Conex and Tectite by Aalberts- Yorkshire Fittings
Cuprofit is not intended to be non-professional
Tectite (Sprint) is sold in B&Q
I've seen as many leaks on Tectite as on Cuprofit

I haven't seen Tectite Sprint in use, but the bag of samples I was sent were particularly floppy on the pipe, and have no features to address the leaking pushfits we all see.

 

[NotSureAboutDIY]

As an estimate how long would you guys expect my speedfit to last.
its 2 short wall mounted runs.

cold water from stopcock:
compression to stop cock - T piece to appliance tap T piece to upstairs feed compression - right angle to Kitchen sink monoblock.
hot water
appliance tap - T piece to feed from upstairs tank (compression) - right angle to kitchen sink monoblock.

there are currently no leaks...

 

[ChrisR]

how long would you guys expect my speedfit to last.

Ask us in 20 - 30 years time...

 

[Softus]

+++++++++++++++++++++++

The backbiting I explained to Softus yesterday was members
trying to goad each other with things like ...

Since most of the words you refer to were written by me, I'd like to respond to this; firstly by pointing out that little or no goading occurred.

"fool"

You refer to a word that you've already removed, but the word can be defined as follows:

a silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense.

I used the word in reference to the following statement:

Copper pipe is likely to be fine after 100 years. Your plastic will be lucky if the seals have not failed within 20 years.

...to which my full reply was:

That is an unfounded and therefore foolish assertion - have you ever seen any 100 year-old copper pipe? If not, then it's because the average life expectancy is more like 15 years, whereas correctly installed Hep2o pipe and fittings are guaranteed for 50 years.

The questions remain unanswered, the assertion remains foolish, therefore my observation remains correct and valid.

"insane"

This wasn't an unreasonable way to describe one interpretation (of many possible interpretations) of my collective posts. I was not goaded, or offended, as you will see if you read my reply to garethgas.

"narrow-minded and out-of-date"

This was a view, and I would assert an accurate one, of an organisation that purports to represent the plumbing and heating trade. Agile frequently takes it upon himself to write about his views as a member of that organisation, and it's simple enough to show that those views are narrow-minded. Since society is moving in the general direction of placing less importance on formal qualifications and professional memberships, it follows, logically, that to hold such views is to be out of date. QED.

"your high horse"

This was a clear reference to valid and common metaphor - the poster was so distracted by his own (pompous) view that he utterly misinterpreted the opinion that he disparouged.

"elitist and snobbish"

The IPHE membership includes an elitist and snobbish element.

"Is it your time of the month."

Perhaps garethgas is a woman? I just don't know. However, I accept that my question was in poor taste.

I am pleased that some members have calmed down

I believe you are mistaken - I'm not aware of being anything other than calm.

...and edited some of their more impetuous posts, otherwise the
thread is at risk of being closed.

Mod Rupert
+++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm not certain what what "closed" means, but if you delete the topic then the useful information that it contains will be unavailable to those who would learn from it, and if you lock the topic then you'll be preventing further discussion.

 

[ratonnastick]

"but if you delete the topic then the useful information ."

no really useful but amusing

 

[Softus]

no really useful

Well I've found it useful, and I suspect that stewski (whom I owe a reply) might have too.

 

[bab]

I think there maybe a different aproach to copper on this site as the different water in some areas must make a different imapact, Up in lancashire unless your on natural spring water the life span seems 5o year pluss. My dads house still has the same pipework & cylinder that was fitted when built in 1960 & has no signs of any corrosion .The largest amont of leaks that i go to on copper is down to bad installer practice of not removing flux off pipework & 30 years later its pinholed. I have no douts about plastic pipe . Its the joints that allways cause the problems. I have NEVER been to a leak where a compresion or soldered joint has blown off causing major damage, I think Insurance price's will rise due to pushfit fittings & a house without pushfit should get a discount, In the last three days I'v layed an overfloor UFH system (If thats not a contradiction) comprising of 880m of 12mm plastic pipe. It was so easy it felt like i was on holiday but u wont covert me to fit it when copper will do.

 

[Agile]

Dont let Softus into your Dads house!

He would find some of his existing views on copper pipe challenged!

Does your Dad live in Hertsfordshire?

Tony

 

[bab]

Near Preston Lancs. Where the waters soft & the pipes live forever,

 

[Softus]

Why do you doubt it? Is it because all of the IoP members have a narrow-minded and out-of-date view of the current products? And do you realise that the entire membership of the IPHE and the IoP is vastly less than the number of high-quality plumbers and engineers who aren't members?
.
.
Without looking them up, do you know the recommended clipping distances, vertically and horizontally? The thermal expansion ratios? The minimum bend radii?
.
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Have you ever seen any 100 year-old copper pipe?
.
.
How many times, roughly, have you seen a plastic fitting leak?
.
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And how many times have you seen a brass compression joint leak?
.
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And how many times have you seen plastic pipe leak?
.
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And how many times have you seen copper tube corrode?
.
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Have you seen plastic fail at 1 bar?
.
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Have you seen plastic fail at 130°C? If so, was it wrongly installed, or was there a system fault leading to over-temperature?

I sense that I've driven a cargo train off the cliff-edge of your knowledge Agile, so I give up the attempt to get you to justify your subjective and unscientific assessment of plastic and pushfit. Interestingly, the IPHE, which you hold so dear to your heart, makes the following declaration on its web site:

MOD 2
behave gents (all of you)

 

[NotSureAboutDIY]

I have found this thread useful as softus said.

The mild back biting is pretty similar to most web forums, people are often more pushy on the web than in real life, however when all is said and done I get the general impression that most plumbers prefer copper and traditional joins to pushfit (hardly suprising for a number of reasons) however push fit and plastic pushfit especially is gaining hesitant acceptance for specific applications, much as you'd expect really.

As for my own limited speed fit install, Im pretty happy wih it, its very unlikely to last 20years but its very unlikely to have to last 20 years, kitchens are typically updated more often than this and my whole water/central heating system will probably need sorting before then!

I understand the reasons many pro plumbers will dislike diy'ers and the ease of install speedfit gives (and to a degree agree that things can be too easy as to tempt people to undertake work they shouldnt) but on the whole I think pushfit plastic is a good thing, this has allowed me to update my kitchen, plumb my washing machine and start to understand my houses plumbing to the point where I'd feel comfortable talking to a pro with regards to a full job, something I would've choosen to avoid until forced into doing so before.

One last thing, softus and tony, your positions and advice really arent as far apart as your personalities, take a chill pill and ask your selves, do these comments help. Especially imagine you are talking to an intellegent non professional audience, it will get you more work, more trust from clients and more respect in general.